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jfh

c4Forums Member
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jfh last won the day on May 24

jfh had the most liked content!

About jfh

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    Control4 Wizard

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Colorado
  • Interests
    I enjoy finding new ways to make my Control4 system useful and would love to learn more about how C4 works.

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  1. jfh

    2017 Thoughts for Control4

    If the homeowner can find a C4 dealer that cares about residential installs and building on an existing system without spending $$$, sure. Jury is still out on the CA1, but it seems like it more gimmick than gateway.
  2. jfh

    2017 Thoughts for Control4

    Maybe he doesn't want Crestrin to be more successful than it already is
  3. jfh

    2017 Thoughts for Control4

    I agree with everything except the "become a primary shareholder". No one that participates here has the resources to do that. And the eyeballs this forum reaches is inconsequential rounding error to C4. Real change isn't going to happen unless existing dealers demand it or C4 sees that Joe Homeowner no longer considers C4 a viable option for their home automation needs. If neither happens before the current gravy train ends, the future won't be as bright as the present seems. What is seemingly lost on the staunch defenders of the status quo is that the dealer model and Pro for non-dealers is not a binary choice. Having both helps both camps. Only those satisfied with "good enough" can't see that.
  4. jfh

    2017 Thoughts for Control4

    There is a big difference between "the business model still works" and "the business model could be more effective for dealers and C4". I'm advocating the second point, not arguing the first. I do believe that long term C4 will see negative impacts if they continue to lock down Composer Pro not because of the function but because of what it represents. At the end of the day it's not how many consumers choose to use Pro - the vast majority wouldn't - it's that they would have the option to do so. I picked C4 over Savant in part because I knew that HE allowed me to have control over my system. (Unfortunately I took my dealer's word that I could do anything with HE and didn't realize I couldn't until it was too late to consider other options, though at the time I would have probably chosen C4 despite that). C4 does a number of things well. Ditto Amazon and Apple. Most consumers just want the best of both models and don't give a damn about how or why automation works or where they have to buy from. They just want it to work. And they want to have the option of doing something even if they never will.
  5. jfh

    2017 Thoughts for Control4

    In fairness, Intercom Anywhere is actually pretty exciting and works very well for what it does. Quite useful if you have a number of T3s. What is disappointing is how long it took C4 to provide the function. In my case, C4 lost a Door Station sale because I simply couldn't wait any longer for a solution at the front door. Now Ring has my doorbell and it isn't worth the trouble or expense to replace it with a DS2.
  6. Thanks for clarifying that you are thin-skinned and angry in addition to being arrogant and ignorant. I'm doing quite well with my life, thanks. I was successful and fortunate enough to retire at 49. Part of the reason I was able to do so was because I'm pretty good at figuring out who can deliver and who can't and what works and what doesn't.
  7. Of course you don't have to explain yourself - you already did. Quite clearly. I didn't tell you how to run your business and I'm glad your model works for you. The point you seem to be missing is that you are the type of dealer that the OP needs to avoid. That doesn't necessarily make you a bad dealer, just one that doesn't fit the image C4 is trying to promote to consumers.
  8. jfh

    2017 Thoughts for Control4

    I understand that, which is why C4 fights so hard to protect the dealer model and insist it's the only way. Licensing Pro to qualified non-dealers and/or allowing consumer self install/configuration for basic devices would drive more business (both hardware and services).
  9. jfh

    2017 Thoughts for Control4

    Maybe. But Is it not true? I'm pretty sure if you didn't have Pro you would be supporting my side. You are clearly a power user that fits the model of someone who should be able to license Pro. I know a number of dealers that think it's ridiculous that power users can't license Pro and who realize that some may even be more capable than many dealers. The smart dealers are all for it because they understand they will be billing hourly to clean up the systems of those that have no business using Pro but manage to screw up theirs system by doing so. A small fraction of HE users would be willing to take the training C4 requires for Pro on their own dime. There's no reason that group shouldn't be able to license Pro without becoming a C4 dealer with sales quotas.
  10. jfh

    2017 Thoughts for Control4

    Agreed. But part of that problem is that C4 less concerned with the end user experience and more with driving volumes of high margin hardware which is why the Magnolia deal happened. It was pretty evident in my area (Denver) that Best Buy/Magnolia was almost totally clueless when it came to Control4 and that C4 itself didn't seem to care. With Magnolia, C4 pissed all over it's existing dealer network by bypassing them for pure sales volume.
  11. jfh

    2017 Thoughts for Control4

    There have been multiple iterations of the same general discussion for years. The points you bring up are good ones. However bad dealers and anyone else who currently has Pro generally don't believe anyone else should because allowing others to use Pro would show that the emperor has no clothes. Mitch is correct - adding a light switch isn't hard, it's trivial. It is ridiculous it requires a dealer to do. What he didn't tell you is that almost everything else is easy to do for anyone that has the interest to do so and has even the most basic understanding of logic and programming. The stuff you can't do in HE - adding devices/drivers, updating code, making bindings - are pretty straight forward. Things C4 has done to make things easier for dealers - SDDP and self Discovery as one example - and drivers that automatically create their own bindings - make things even easier. Until C4 decides that the people that actually buy and use their systems and services are just as important as the dealers, the status quo is not going to change. Why C4 wants to continue to alienate power users is beyond me.
  12. I'm not sure I'd want to brag about that. That means (a) you don't know how to write a good contract (b) you are incompetent (c) you can't schedule or allocate time properly or (d) you have some combination of the above and a clueless customer from hell. Your posts scream "stay away from me" to a residential customer like the OP who is trying to decide whether to go with C4. It's clear you don't like residential work and that's fine. But you certainly haven't presented an image of a Control4 dealer that reflects well on the dealer model. It was your own comments about your actions that prompted my "dealer of the year" quip. That you can't seem to understand how those comments and actions don't help promote C4 is a perfect example of why many non-dealers have a problem with an exclusive territory dealer model. If the OP is in an area serviced by a dealer that thinks like you, he's not likely to have a positive C4 experience.
  13. Your first point is exactly why many residential customers have trouble getting the time of day from a dealer after the initial install. I experienced it first-hand and got the details from a tech that wasn't thrilled with the practice. Doing commericial work and/or large scale cookie cutter work (install basic systems in each unit of a multi residential building for example) is preferable because it's rarely customized the way typical residential is and the dealer can hide more margin because there is rarely any comparison shopping done by those commissioning the work. In the case of new apt/condo work the C4 system is often a marketing gimmick. The actual end buyer ends up with what amounts to a "use it as is or ignore it" system. C4 ends up with an impressive number of new installs that look nice on paper but that don't really reflect true adoption of the platform. Yes, basic systems that are primarily lighting control or basic AV control work well. But that's exactly the type of system that can be done now at the fraction of the cost of using C4. And, while the dealer is chasing these higher profit cookie cutter installs customers who WS t to upgrade or refresh their systems or do some of the sexier stuff a C4 system is capable of wait days and weeks, sometimes months for a service window or don't get return calls at all if thousands of dollars aren't involved.
  14. jfh

    2017 Thoughts for Control4

    Nothing has been "added" to HE. Pro is built and then certain functions are disabled to create HE. That was pretty evident with the security certificate fiasco. Stuff that's a no brainer to expose in HE (e.g. display all current programming) still hasn't been done even though C4 added the request to its developers over a year ago. I've said it before, but will say it again - keeping Pro from non-dealers that are willing to take training and license the code only protects bad dealers and alienates a group of power users that could easily become goodwill ambassadors for Control4.
  15. Did you miss the irony of your own comment? I provided a comment on my experience. C4 is a good option if (a) you find a dealer that is willing and able to support you long term (b) you understand and don't have a problem with the C4 imposed limitations places on end users (the people that actually buy the systems) inherent with their current the dealer model and (c) that you are likely to pay a significant premium because of (a) and (b). In many ways C4 is better than Savant or other competitors in the space. I gave the OP the opinion of a non-dealer end-user consumer that bought into the C4 model. With what I knew at the time, it seemed like a good decision. With what I know now, not so much.
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