Reminder - Price increase in 15 days. Details please read...

[CFUG]

Maybe I should write to Netgear and tell them they are fired too? Do you know what they are doing with licensing? Netgear is ignoring one of the largest providers of services (VZ) and not supporting email scanning for them however selling a VERY expensive license for this task. Just another example of how sometimes the world IS screwed-up.

[dgbrown]

I think the whole problem was they did this half way into the product cycle of the HC-800 and HC-250. If they introduced the new units and let everyone know the site license was now free with the new controllers it would have been received much better. The problem here is that they are now isolating their current dedicated user base and eliminating an add on path for the site license after June.

Totally agree. Makes sense to include the licenses with a new product launch' date=' doesn't make sense to alienate/irritate existing customer base.[/quote']

It's interesting that this by my count is the 3rd licensing fiasco relative to My Home since its inception.

While this should have been done last year with the introduction of the hc800, my beef is abandoning the existing base of year old hc800 customers.

1) why the tight timeline to purchase licenses ?

2) and the math: new hc800 @ $1,500 < old hc800 + intercom license + my home site license

Anyway you cut it the hc800 was under priced based in c4's product mix.

Why the inequity ? And why can't product marketing get this right ?

[cvlboy]

how much for just intercom license (MSRP) now?

[dgbrown]

how much for just intercom license (MSRP) now?

I believe the MSRP is $399 for Intercom and $499 for My Home site license.

[mludwig]

What's funny to me is all the angst over C4 moving in the direction it chooses to, which is their right as a privately held company.

For the last 5-6 years, I've had C4 installed at my home. Been a customer since 1.3. A fairly broad installation, covering lights, thermostats, 6 TV locations, whole house audio, garage, pool, and integration to my alarm system. In February, we closed on a new home. Moving gave me a chance to look at what I'd invested in, and make some different choices. And I did, deciding that C4 wasn't for me any longer. For me, it was a combination of things.

- My gear was getting older and I faced a fairly expensive upgrade

- I never really loved the thermostats

- Aside from outside lights, I always felt that the lighting control was more fun than necessity

- The changes/maturation of the C4 business model didn't leave me feeling great about things.

So I'm now using a set of dedicated outside light controllers, I've got the NEST thermostats, SONOS is in place for whole house audio, and I'm using the logitech harmony remotes for the TVs. Cost me a whole lot less, I'm generally happy, and I'm moving on.

I guess what I'm saying is that in the end, it's C4's decision how they run their business. As a consumer, your best and only ability to show them (or any other company) how you feel about their choices is to buy or not buy from them. The ebay market isn't exactly what it was for HC-300s and the like, but 5 years of use is still a pretty fair thing when you consider electronics.

Me.

[digitaltrader]

What's funny to me is all the angst over C4 moving in the direction it chooses to, which is their right as a privately held company.

For the last 5-6 years, I've had C4 installed at my home. Been a customer since 1.3. A fairly broad installation, covering lights, thermostats, 6 TV locations, whole house audio, garage, pool, and integration to my alarm system. In February, we closed on a new home. Moving gave me a chance to look at what I'd invested in, and make some different choices. And I did, deciding that C4 wasn't for me any longer. For me, it was a combination of things.

- My gear was getting older and I faced a fairly expensive upgrade

- I never really loved the thermostats

- Aside from outside lights, I always felt that the lighting control was more fun than necessity

- The changes/maturation of the C4 business model didn't leave me feeling great about things.

So I'm now using a set of dedicated outside light controllers, I've got the NEST thermostats, SONOS is in place for whole house audio, and I'm using the logitech harmony remotes for the TVs. Cost me a whole lot less, I'm generally happy, and I'm moving on.

I guess what I'm saying is that in the end, it's C4's decision how they run their business. As a consumer, your best and only ability to show them (or any other company) how you feel about their choices is to buy or not buy from them. The ebay market isn't exactly what it was for HC-300s and the like, but 5 years of use is still a pretty fair thing when you consider electronics.

Me.

Your angst is a lot less now that you've sold your home that housed your 5 year old equipment and moved on. It appears you had the same complaints we do. As a customer who is highly invested from a financial as well as time standpoint I would like nothing more than to see C4 succeed. I think all we are trying to do is advise the company from a highly motivated and interested consumer point of view. I think we all agree that there will come a point if the ship is not corrected many of us will move on as well. It's a little more difficult to move on once you've made a significant financial investment in their product however.

[CFUG]

^LOL. Don't get excited- he closed on a house that didn't have automation. It IS a big deal to have HA, OK? It's not a given. It's not like if Control4 was solid gold, people are going to turn their pockets inside out. You plan for it, you budget for it then you execute it like it was any other vital sub-system of the home.

It's automation and automation is only as good as the people D&B'ing your system.

[turls]

And what he's replaced it with would likely not be a valid replacement for a majority of people that have experienced C4, IMO. I personally would never invest in C4 if there was a likely chance I was moving within 5 years, but maybe there is a big difference in projected longevity in pre-Zigbee Pro stuff. Unless I planned on ripping it out again and moving it. Having to do it from scratch in 5 years or even a major hardware refresh might make me think going back to a Harmony remote was an option...

It sounds to me maybe he didn't have very optimal programming on his first system, but to each his own, maybe he did.

[mludwig]

Actually, I had a great dealer in Florida, and would recommend them again. And I had a good experience with C4 during the lifetime of use. At the time of the move, we were in the process of looking at what to do about my system, and would have had to make some change regardless:

- I had an MC, 2 HTCs, and 3 original HC-300's.

- Was using all V2 remotes.

- All my garage stuff was zigbee and wouldn't switch over.

As I said, I was looking at an upgrade cost regardless of my move. The move did, clearly, provide me with the chance to start fresh, and to re-make decisions. And as I said, many of the things I had done with my original system were not things I felt I'd need to do again in a new install. But there were also options out there that made opting for something other than C4 "easier" than when I first made choices:

- FIOS offers whole-house DVR options, which reduced my need to be able to share a set of DVRs across the house. My wife wanted the ability to watch a recorded channel in any room of the house, and I now had a way of doing that without "sharing" the unit itself.

- SONOS offers a whole-house audio option that's more powerful and more seamlessly integrated into my apple-friendly household.

- C4 options for integration with my pool were never great to begin with, and going with something dedicated to that purpose this time seemed more appropriate.

Again, I'm not saying my choices are for everyone. And I honestly feel like I got good value out of the $$ I spent on my C4 gear the first time around. I replace PCs and cell-phones every few years, it's not surprising that gear like C4 would need something along those lines as well.

In the end, my issue with C4 is that when I first bought it, C4 represented a differentiator in my home. With it I could do things that without it I could not. So it justified the expense. Now, with the options that are out there, for me it didn't represent this differentiator. As a gear head, I wish it did. I'd love for there to be some killer thing C4 could do for me that made it worth the while. But I sat down with my new installer, listed the things I wanted, and we both agreed that my needs could be met simpler and easier without C4 than with it.

Mitch

[Gary Leeds UK]

Most agree about Sonos - It is in a class of its own :cool:

[CFUG]

Actually, I had a great dealer in Florida, and would recommend them again. And I had a good experience with C4 during the lifetime of use. At the time of the move, we were in the process of looking at what to do about my system, and would have had to make some change regardless:

- I had an MC, 2 HTCs, and 3 original HC-300's.

- Was using all V2 remotes.

- All my garage stuff was zigbee and wouldn't switch over.

As I said, I was looking at an upgrade cost regardless of my move. The move did, clearly, provide me with the chance to start fresh, and to re-make decisions. And as I said, many of the things I had done with my original system were not things I felt I'd need to do again in a new install. But there were also options out there that made opting for something other than C4 "easier" than when I first made choices:

- FIOS offers whole-house DVR options, which reduced my need to be able to share a set of DVRs across the house. My wife wanted the ability to watch a recorded channel in any room of the house, and I now had a way of doing that without "sharing" the unit itself.

- SONOS offers a whole-house audio option that's more powerful and more seamlessly integrated into my apple-friendly household.

- C4 options for integration with my pool were never great to begin with, and going with something dedicated to that purpose this time seemed more appropriate.

Again, I'm not saying my choices are for everyone. And I honestly feel like I got good value out of the $$ I spent on my C4 gear the first time around. I replace PCs and cell-phones every few years, it's not surprising that gear like C4 would need something along those lines as well.

In the end, my issue with C4 is that when I first bought it, C4 represented a differentiator in my home. With it I could do things that without it I could not. So it justified the expense. Now, with the options that are out there, for me it didn't represent this differentiator. As a gear head, I wish it did. I'd love for there to be some killer thing C4 could do for me that made it worth the while. But I sat down with my new installer, listed the things I wanted, and we both agreed that my needs could be met simpler and easier without C4 than with it.

Mitch

I'm with you 100% on this. It's post #82 I have a problem with. I think it's great that you have enough wits about you to use logic in determining how to fill your needs. I hope someday you are in a position to go back to Control4 and contribute here on this forum.

[qVAMPIREp]

mludwig makes some good points. Control4 actually offers very little in the way of innivation that can't be done better by others for less money/hassel. All of his top needs like video and media distribution, pool integration, etc. are not Control4's top priorities.

[turls]

I sure hope a lot of people feel the way you do, then C4 might be more aggressive on pricing their solution going forward. However

-I assume the FIOS whole house solution is similar to DirecTVs. Even with DirecTV's latest tech, in my mind sharing one DVR is in no way a substitute for multiple DVRs. Its nice to share shows, but there is more to it than that, especially during live TV watching. I am probably more picky than most. I don't even have my DVRs matrixed yet but conceptually once they are matrixed they should be as good or better than having one connected to most TVs. And at that point, I will even be able to reduce my monthly mirroring cost. You aren't reducing any mirroring fees if you just go with the standard whole house solutions from the providers.

-I only had Squeezebox as a whole house solution before I had C4, and I added Sonos because of the integration with C4. There are definite advantages to a C4 integrated Sonos vs Sonos by itself if you use the EV driver. Again, probably not something that would be an easy sell if you don't look pretty close into it.

As I said, I was looking at an upgrade cost regardless of my move. The move did, clearly, provide me with the chance to start fresh, and to re-make decisions. And as I said, many of the things I had done with my original system were not things I felt I'd need to do again in a new install. But there were also options out there that made opting for something other than C4 "easier" than when I first made choices:

- FIOS offers whole-house DVR options, which reduced my need to be able to share a set of DVRs across the house. My wife wanted the ability to watch a recorded channel in any room of the house, and I now had a way of doing that without "sharing" the unit itself.

- SONOS offers a whole-house audio option that's more powerful and more seamlessly integrated into my apple-friendly household.

- C4 options for integration with my pool were never great to begin with, and going with something dedicated to that purpose this time seemed more appropriate.