Jump to content
C4 Forums | Control4

Panelized Lighting Questions


SMHarman

Recommended Posts

Hi,

A few months out from a partial gut of an apartment which will mean rewiring the lighting of what will become the kitchen and living / media room.

I see the need to control about 3 lighting loads in each room and also a ceiling fan in the living room.

So looking at the products I could get 7 switches (or whatever combination may be possible on the new switches) or maybe 8-Channel Dimmer (C4-DIN-8DIM-E) and 2-Slot Panel (C4-DIN-2PAN). Looking at the onesheet, I think I also need the 8-Channel Dimmer Terminal Block (C4-DIN-TB-8DIM).

http://www.control4.com/files/products/misc/PanelizedLighting-ProductFamilyOnesheet.pdf

And a couple of the new configurable keypads (C4-KCB, one for each room).

What are the MRSP of these parts?

Is this a better way than traditional wiring and Gen 3 switches / adaptive phase dimmers / fan controller?

Can the fan be controlled off the 8 channel dimmer?

Seems you can just use a POE router to feed the power to the wired keypads (or run 120v)?

Can gen2 keypads also command the panelized lighting?

At this time I am not sure of the loads that will be present on these circuits, but as we are talking to the architect about the design I thought I should start considering this now.

Responses / Advice greatly appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I'd also advise to have a dealer look at it. It's difficult at best to judge something like this from text.

On the more general questions:

Power for keypads required a specific part for your panel - they need specific wires to be run to them from there to work.

Yes you need the terminal block as well.

Yes old keypads can control new and panelised lighting (note that they would be powered 110)

No a dimmer or dimmer module cannot control a fan. You'd need a switch, relay-module or fan controller.

In general terms, all generations and forms of lighting can be mixed and matched (only real exception is the specific aux keypad for multi-location control as these don't actually become part of the system and require the gen 3 wireless lighting)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are most Control4 dealers also licensed electricians? I know mine aren't, so I find it funny that they would be consulting on high voltage equipment. In my area the union electricians would go balistic to hear of a low voltage guy giving high voltage advice or installing any such equipment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For this relatively low number of switches / keypads, I think you will find after consulting with your dealer that the cost to do second generation wireless products will be quite a bit lower than panelized. And you will presumably need a robust Zigbee mesh anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are most Control4 dealers also licensed electricians? I know mine aren't, so I find it funny that they would be consulting on high voltage equipment. In my area the union electricians would go balistic to hear of a low voltage guy giving high voltage advice or installing any such equipment.

Some certainly are licensed electricians as well as low-voltage installers. I'd guess most are not.

Those that are not likely know they can't do those installations, and a lot of them work with licensed electricians, and sub out that kind of work.

RyanE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That said, I could certainly give *advice* regarding high-voltage installations, as long as I'm not doing the installation.

I've done all the high-voltage electrical work on my own home, which, at least where I live, is perfectly legal.

RyanE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indeed, some are or have licensed electricians, many do not. I am, so is Godzilla if I remember correctly, many others will have working relationships with electricians they can call in - but that isn't the point.

The reason to call in a dealer would be that they presumably can tell you what would be the most cost-efficient/logical choice to do this with, based on lay-out, what you actually want to be doing, ZigBee coverage, future proofing and so-on.

If union groups want to go ballistic over a dealer giving someone advice on which devices to use within the context of a home automation system - well I won't use that sort of language on here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i am also licensed for electrical......as Cy has mentioned, we dont have many unions down here in florida, and most dealers prefer the 1 stop shop, but its more about them working together to obtain the desired result, so feedback and ideas from both sides is a good practice, i work with many companies down here when crestron or savant is used and am quite friendly with them , so is never a battle.......just working together as should be

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...

I have a few silly questions.  I actually called my dealer, but he mentioned that he has never done an install for this yet, he said he could field any questions i had by reaching out to c4 direct, but i figured i'd just ask here first.

 

i watched all the video tutorials etc, the question i had was that it looks like there is a wired keypad that gets wired directly to the panel,  is that to say that this is the only method of controlling the loads in the panel? do the modules in the panel have zigbee capability?  can you control the loads with regular zigbee keypads? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you get the wired keypads and the right module in the panel then the lighting continues to operate even if the director is non responsive / offline. The command goes to the panel to the load.

Zigbee keypads still work but require the zigbee mesh the director etc and that sends an IP command to the lighting panel.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just to clarify, you are saying if you install the Bus Ethernet Gateway (C4-DIN-BEG) that any commands routed through zigbee keypads, through the mesh, to the director, and then via ethernet from director to panel, will work?

 

additionally there is wiring for an override switch. which i believe is a hardwire switch. so if you went with ethernet gateway, + hardwire override switch + the hard switch buttons on the panel themselves, it sounds like you'd have enough backup in an outage etc, is this configuration possible?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes and yes.

 

Wired keypads are nice as they continue to work in almost any circumstance (ie as long as there is a director and network they work as normal, if those are lost they can be set to have some default functionality as well).,

The override switch you wire in is useful as a remote all on/off option (or a set group on/off) so you're not left to find your way to the panel in the dark.

The little push buttons on the actual modules will always work of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

As this project comes kicking and screaming over the finish like I thought I should share what the panel looks like now.

When I pull the cover off again to connect the led tapes (did I mention kicking and screaming) I will get some more better pictures.

The color ended up contrasting / blending pretty well against the wall in this space.

post-134442-14158040106_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

Bay 1 left/top

Control4 8 channel dimmer.

Bay 2

Maxwell DR100-24 transformer powers

Enttec DIN-LED4 1000 (kitchen cabinets in and under cab)

Warm white 2800k and Cool White 6000k tape to give variable color temp range as well as dimming.

Bay 3

Meanwell DR100-24

Meanwell DR 60-24

Power for the next two

Bay 4

3x Enttec DIN-LED4 1000

One for each 5m of LED tape in the light cove.

Bay 5

Meanwell DR100-24

(for LED tape driver above and ODE below)

DIN-ODE (takes IP commands from the HC250/HC800 and converts them to DMX.

White cable on top/right is 24v speaker wire (UL) going to the led tape.

Yellow is CAT sending the DMX.

Blocks on bottom / left are HV. The 8 pair's coming in the top are various lighting circuits in the kitchen, living room, bedrooms and gallery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

I have a related panelized lighting question.  Thought I would post it here rather than start a new thread.  We have a 12 load Crestron panelized lighting system, with 10 loads being used.  We would like to switch out the automation to Control4.  I have had 3 dealers take a look.  One said no problem, just switching lighting modules but keep existing can and terminals. Second said whole thing has to come out because the rails are all different size (I thought these are standard).  The third admitted he wasn't sure but suggested changing it out to a bank of standard switches.  Thanks for any help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are talking this stuff

http://www.crestron.com/products/line/commercial-lighting-control-lights

http://www.crestron.com/Products/Model/DIN-1DIMU4

Aluminum with polycarbonate label overlay, 35mm DIN EN 60715 rail mount, DIN 43880 form factor for enclosures with 45mm front panel cutout, occupies 12 DIN module spaces (216mm)

See more at: http://www.crestron.com/Products/Model/DIN-1DIMU4#sthash.u91JcjoW.dpuf

Height 3.71 in (95 mm) Width 8.49 in (216 mm) Depth 2.35 in (60 mm)

And replacing with Control 4 C4-DIN-8DIM-E

Then the spec sheet says that the Module can be installed in either a Control4® 5 or 2-slot panel or a third-party DIN rail panel

And the dimensions are near identical.

H × W × D

8.5” × 4.3” × 2.3” (215 mm × 109 mm × 57 mm)

DIN Module Width

12M

Checking against my meanwell DR100 Transformers they are also 35mm rail TS35/7.5 or TS35/15 and have a 45mm front panel cutout

So if I have the right Crestron stuff then yes I think these will fit in the Crestron box with absolutely no problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It isn't the commercial but residential stuff. A CAEN-2x1 enclosure with rails here: http://www.crestron.com/Products/lighting-control-environment/centralized-lighting-systems/wall-mount-enclosures 

 

and 2 of the dimmer modules here: http://www.crestron.com/Products/lighting-control-environment/centralized-lighting-systems/modules-for-caen-enclosures-120v.

 

Looks pretty standard to me based on the Control4 pictures.  The terminal blocks look pretty similar aw well.  I appreciate the info and suggestions!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you are correct.  I would assume (you know what that means!) one could mount two dim rails in the panel box were the modules are mounted.  I did call Control4 and while no specific info, they did confirm the Control4 is standard din rail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.