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KeyLess Lock -> Security Panel or Control4


JEC

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I am in the pre-planning process of control4 design and education (building a home) and want to be as educated as possible prior to engaging the authorized dealer.  I have questions on best practices around connecting Keyless door locks...

 

My system will be Control4 and I will have an Elk M1 handling physical security and integrated.  Should I have the Keyless door lock connect directly with Control4 (zigbee) or should I have the Keyless door lock connect with the Elk security panel (zwave)?  I am very familiar with the ELK operations but new to Control4 and unsure of the pros/cons with the different configurations and integration.

 

Thank you for your help!

 

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Is that door going to be on the security system anyway (door contact)?  If so I'd probably do the C4 option, especially if you were already planning on using the C4 app remotely.

 

It will have a contact and be monitored.  With integration will the C4 be able to disarm the ELK?  So I can do a disarm and unlock through the C4 app?  Thanks so much.

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I know you would be able to disarm the M1 system through control4.  I'm honestly not sure if you interface the door lock into the elk system if you'd be able to unlock that through control4.  That's why i'd use the zigbee lock.  you could then for certain disarm your security and unlock that door remotely through the C4 app.

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We would use the C4 Lock and cut the Elk back to security only.  We have installed Elks in the field that are setup like this.  Forget about the lighting, etc..  Keep that on the C4 side too.

 

Yes you can arm/disarm the elk from the C4 side. 

 

You'll appreciate being able to use the 4store app to set codes/time lock users/set auto re-locking etc. In addition nice and easy to generate notifications, etc.. , do actions (like turning on a light), etc.. based on lock activity and being able to pull up a history on the touchscreen.

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I find the remote use far quicker and easier with the eKeypad ios app for triggering relays, arming and disarming.

 

I use Control4 when wishing to control lighting loads or av.

 

My access control is routed through the security panel, M1

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Thank you everyone for your responses and help!

 

If the Control4 is managing wireless lock, can the ELK trigger a lock/unlock event on the Control4?  Or does the integration between c4 and security panel only go one way?

 

Additionally, is it "safe" to have the the unlock action (key code on the wireless lock) trigger a disarm on security panel?  Or should you keep those as two separate actions to ensure layered security?

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It's serial two way or IP if you have the Elk piece for it.

 

The Elk driver has a programming event of When Security System Has been disarmed that you could set to unlock the door.

 

However, I would say more prudent to keep the two actions separate.

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Typically they wouldn't be linked in that order (disarm then unlock), because most people have security panels *inside* their house, so they have to unlock the lock first, then disarm the security system when you're inside the house.

 

I would definitely *not* recommend having a successful unlock also disarm the security system.  It's pretty easy for someone to unobtrusively shoulder-surf your front door lock code (with binoculars, etc., or just be near the door when a kid goes in), it's much less easy for them to find out your security code.

 

Linking the 'Arm to Away' to locking the doors isn't a bad idea, though.

 

RyanE

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We've had it requested off the wireless remote keyfobs many times and always tell them no and if they insist they would need to sign a huge and thorough disclaimer prepared legally at their expense and a copy to their monitoring company.

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Having done automation for 12 years including HAI and Elk, unless you have an investment in Elk, save your money and go buy a concord security system. Let the security system be a security system. Concord works great with control4.

 

I use the Kwikset/Baldwin locks primarily for one reason, the driver has more programming options.  I tired the Yale, and while it looks nice you cannot lock with a code, only with a finger swipe action.  Why this may be important: in my home I have three options to lock the door. Press the lock button - locks the door. Enter my code then press the lock, it will lock the door (and the other 2 doors) and turn off all A/V and lights.  Lock the door with a second code (original code +1) it will locks the doors, turn off all A/V, lights and arm the security system.  You cannot do this with the Yale lock, there is no option to lock with a code.

 

Slightly off-topic - I recently swapped my thermostat from a Control4 to a Z-Wave that communicates to the concord via Alarm.com radio.  Mainly because alarm.com has the ability (like c4) to automate the temperature to the arming/disarming, but what alarm.com does is geo-location.  An example, I leave town for vacation and the thermostat drops to a lower temp when I leave the 25 mile radius of my home.  When I return to the 25 mile radius it turns the heat back on to normal temps as by the time I get home the home is warmed up. I do hope when Nest enables 3rd party integration it will work with both C4 and alarm.com, we shall see. I don't see any benefit yet to use the locks with alarm.com unless I had a rental property.

 

Other ideas on the lock - I have a keypad button that turns red when any lock is unlocked. press the button and it locks them all.

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I'm missing something on my kwikset... Care to explain how your doing stuff like "code+lock" and "original code+1".

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two separate codes. With different actions triggered on each code.

The codes could be 9876 And 67891 for all the says cares just two codes.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk

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Like C4Programmer said - Concord 4 for the win.  It is our goto choice as well - we would take it over the Elk, but it sounds like you have a vested interest in the Elk already.

 

Also as he said, the Kwikset is more flexible.  It is definitely not as sexy though - we have yet to have a female client choose a Kwikset when they see the Yale.  For some reason they love that touchscreen...Having had both installed at my house, I also prefer the Kwikset.

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Thank you everyone for your comments.  This thread has been incredibly educational.  I was originally thinking Elk because it is what I have in my current residence and I am very comfortable wiring and programming.  Additionally I had some parts that I could bring with me to the new house.  That being said, the Concord is significantly less expensive and would more than make up for savings (including Elk parts I could bring from current house).

 

I had an old GE system and it doesn't look like the keypads have changed much over the years - can the C4 touch screen take the place of the security keypads?  Or is it still recommended to have a security keypad at all entrances and place the C4 (or iOS device) at central living locations?

 

It is unfortunate about the Yale as that lock will most likely be the choice (as stated above) it is the wife's preference.

 

Thanks again!

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Yes the C4 touch screen can take place of a security keypad, but you still want to wire at least one actual security keypad.  For most it's the mudroom or rather your main entrance.

 

 

I was talking with the local C4 integrator and was told they recommend against using the C4 touch screens for security.  Because, the panic (call police/fire/medical) can't bet set to push twice to activate and can't be hidden.  Is there no way to modify the security screens?  Thinking this a valid concern especially since I have kids that love to swat at controls.

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I was talking with the local C4 integrator and was told they recommend against using the C4 touch screens for security.  Because, the panic (call police/fire/medical) can't bet set to push twice to activate and can't be hidden.  Is there no way to modify the security screens?  Thinking this a valid concern especially since I have kids that love to swat at controls.

 

Really?  This is the Elk and Concord4 on the navigator...http://ge.tt/94rZREK1/v/0?c  .  What panic button!?  If access to the security system is still a concern, then you could also just unbind it from the room and it doesn't show up in that particular room.  If you wanted another layer of prevention then you could use the access agent to prevent switching rooms - ie main floor touchscreen and master bedroom touchscreen.  All the systems we have seen are doing 9111 to activate the duress (silent/panic) code.  If it were the opposite and you were concerned about not having it you could do something to program a button for it I suppose though.  I have 5 kids with touchscreens in their rooms, and it has never been an issue...to me it sounds like your local C4 integrator just doesn't want to do security integration.

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