IP VS Serial control, best choice or pros and cons.

[vstar]

Up until now I have always used serial control for interfacing with Control4 when ever possible.

I am about to add a Pioneer receiver to a room with an HC300 and I was going to use my default serial connection and when i went to add the driver 2 popped up, serial and ip. I am inclined to use my tried and true serial connection but i was curious as to if anyone had any arguments to use IP control instead of serial? any thoughts would be appreciated.

thank you.

[ericscales]

I have nothing against serial but if you can do IP, I always go for that. My first choice is IP, second is serial, then, well, there's always IR (although piece by piece I'm managing to get rid of it).  In fact, I was actually a little concerned when my dealer first set up my system.  They used IR for EVERYTHING, even when there were serial or IP drivers available.  His argument was that IR just works, no fuss, but I think it was more lack of experience with the increasing number of IP drivers that are becoming available.

 

I like IP because there are no extra cables to run and well I guess I just like it. 

 

I will warn you on the Pioneer drivers.  I have had some really strange luck with them.  For example, I have an SC-68 receiver in the main rack and the "certified" driver doesn't work, but there's another SC-68 IP driver that does.  Similar situation with an SC-27 I have upstairs (this one I'm using serial as there is no IP control capability).  The SC-27 (again, certified) driver won't control the volume, but if I use the SC-37 driver it works flawlessly.

 

Anyhow, I'd play around with the IP drivers and see if you like them.  You can always switch over if serial is your thing.

 

Oh also, do read the instructions carefully for the IP drivers.  There are some settings on the Pioneer devices you'll want to make sure are correct so that it can properly power up on receiving an IP command, etc.

[Cyknight]

All current and recent Pioneer SC and most VSX units have certified combo drivers (IR/IP/Serial) all in one. As long as you have the correct model nr, so far all have worked just fine for me, that said if one communication style doesn't work , you can switch the driver over to the other without having to rebind/reprogram everything which is a nice bonus.

 

Many IP driver used to be unreliable for some 'consumer' devices, some still are 'iffy' such as TVs some Blu-Ray players, so some hesitance by dealers isn't that surprising. It still happens though, both on serial and IP that devices just don't cope well/drivers are built poorly (Denon volume ramping is one current example)

I always prefer using IP if available and working well, though there are exceptions (example, Binary HDMI switches have IP drivers but I've found their serial drivers much more convenient).

 

From a C4 perspective, serial or network both work very well, little direct difference - but it's easier to have enough ports on a network switch (plus most devices should get a network anyway) then it is to have lots of serial ports.

[SMHarman]

Here I have the Roku3, TiVo premiere, Panasonic BD all on IP. The TV has it which is on/off and select source av1. All work great

It did highlight the need for a robust switch and router. This broke my cheap netgear.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk

[ILoveC4]

I use a bunch of both. My matrix switch, my projector and most of my TV's are controlled via serial. Work great! I've got another TV, and bluray player, Marantz receiver, etc... on IP and they all work great too!

I would lean towards preferring IP for the reasons stated above by Cyknight, but like SMHarmon says you better have a robust network if you're going to get a bunch of IP drivers.

Sent from my Droid MAXX via Tapatalk.

[Cyknight]

... you better have a robust network if you're going to get a bunch of IP drivers.

Sent from my Droid MAXX via Tapatalk.

Meh, you better have a robust network if you want a Control4 system.

[ericscales]

Meh, you better have a robust network if you want a Control4 system.

 

Spot on Cyknight.  And this is why I think C4 should have a dedicated "Networking" training track for dealers.  I have access to the C4 University and while I am happy they do require passing a certification in networking fundamentals, I would like to see this beefed up. 

 

If not for the help of folks on this forum (thank you, wap), I would still be having spanning tree issues with my switch and sonos gear.  It was a quick fix and something that is known amongst the sonos tech folk, but my dealer that sold the sonos gear was not.

[mstafford388]

It would be good if C4 beefed up their dealer networking stuff but I don't really think that would solve the issue.  How do you know the guy who passed the "advanced networking" requirement is the same guy that shows up at your house?  Until dealers step up and invest in training their employees nothing will change.  Enough dealers are ok just getting by on that kind of stuff.

[Cyknight]

Sadly true

[RyanE]

Spot on Cyknight.  And this is why I think C4 should have a dedicated "Networking" training track for dealers.  I have access to the C4 University and while I am happy they do require passing a certification in networking fundamentals, I would like to see this beefed up. 

 

This is where CEDIA certifications come in.

 

CEDIA *does* have a *lot* of good, advanced network training, some of it taught by a very good Control4 dealer that I know.

 

RyanE

[Cyknight]

Also true. But Cedia certification is -not- a requirement to be a dealer, neither are Shawn's courses. It's arguable that this may or may not be Control4's responsibility, and I would say that it SHOULD be a CI's own responsibility but that's hard to enforce. 

Which does leave a lot of people out there doing installs (and not just Control4) with little networking knowledge - and I'm sure you're aware Ryan that a LOT of support calls have always been about networking issues.

[LSDave]

I prefer a serial driver over IP.  probably more reliable as it doesn't rely on any other hardware. I have never experienced issues with a serial driver where as IP drivers, I've run into issues on some receivers where the network locks up or other strange problems.

 

Alto lately any of those company's products that I had issues with seemed to have ironed out the kinks.

[neil12011]

I prefer a serial driver over IP.  probably more reliable as it doesn't rely on any other hardware. I have never experienced issues with a serial driver where as IP drivers, I've run into issues on some receivers where the network locks up or other strange problems.

 

Alto lately any of those company's products that I had issues with seemed to have ironed out the kinks.

 

 

I'm on this boat too, I still prefer serial, although the EV, DD, IP drivers I've used have been great.

[alanchow]

Personally i have always preferred serial control over IP control for one reason.  IP control has more links in the chain which can cause communications to break down.  This can be due to IP conflicts, network equipment failure/crash, etc.

 

Having said that though there is no issue with IP control on a network which is set up and maintained well.

[turls]

Personally i have always preferred serial control over IP control for one reason.  IP control has more links in the chain which can cause communications to break down.  This can be due to IP conflicts, network equipment failure/crash, etc.

 

Having said that though there is no issue with IP control on a network which is set up and maintained well.

 

Ok, this is starting to be a lot like the component/HDMI argument.  Component has gone away in many cases.  Likewise, more and more devices have no ability to do serial control.

 

I understand what all of you are saying about issues with IP, but in the connected home, a poor network is going to cause issues, and control is just one of them.  If they have network issues, those need to be fixed not just for IP control but for everything else that goes with IP.

 

As Cyknight says, you've got a hard limit on serial without adding more boxes, that's huge.  Also, you've got issues getting serial control to remote devices you don't have with IP.

[am350z]

Interesting discussion. I would also agree many dealers need more network training.  Of the all the dealers I interviewed, not a single dealer spec'd any network hardware upgrades.  NOT ONE.  5-6 quotes in the 12-20k range.  Various levels of dealers including gold, platinum and pinnacle.  There was plenty of dealers wanting me to spend 2-3k in cabling though!!  We all know you need super expensive analog cables for whole home audio.   My network was a hodge/podge of new and old airport extremes as wap, an older netgear N router, and several old non gigabit switches.   Fortunately, after reading here about importance of network for C4, I found a  great dealer to work remotely and upgraded the entire network.

 Sorry this is a little OT.  For the record, I am very happy with the devices we changed from IR or serial to IP.

[LSDave]

On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2014 at 9:51 PM, alanchow said:

Personally i have always preferred serial control over IP control for one reason.  IP control has more links in the chain which can cause communications to break down.  This can be due to IP conflicts, network equipment failure/crash, etc.

 

Having said that though there is no issue with IP control on a network which is set up and maintained well.

I realize this is an old thread, but there are issues with IP control on networks that are properly set up..... such as hardware with unreliable network implementation(*coughpioneercough* *cough denon cough*. Serial is about a million times easier to implement on hardware compared to IP.  So the system that has less to go wrong WILL be more reliable.