Audio distribution via Sonos vs Control 4

[BARThompson]

Dear all,

 

I am currently speaking with a C4 dealer at the moment. Amongst other things, we are discussing audio distribution. He has presented me with two options:

 

1. Use 2 Sonos units as audio sources which are distributed around the house via a C4 8 zone amp and audio matrix; or

2. Use 8 (or so) Sonos units to power speakers aorund the house and use a plugin to control it from C4.

 

I would prefer the second option as I already have a few Sonos units and it is therefore a cheaper option. However, it would be helpful if people could provide reviews on how well Sonos integrates with C4. Have you encountered any problems?

 

Also, are there any other considerations you think I should be aware of?

 

Many thanks

[Matt Lowe]

i think you posted early about getting the hc800. if you do sonos the hc250 will be slower than the hc800 running the ev driver. The latest release works really well and is really nice. still need to use the sonos app time to time to add music and change services, but that is minimal. I personal use both c4 and sonos distribution in my home and it works great. the questions is cost, pre-wire, and do you want better speakers than what sonos has.

[cdepaola]

i think you posted early about getting the hc800. if you do sonos the hc250 will be slower than the hc800 running the ev driver. The latest release works really well and is really nice. still need to use the sonos app time to time to add music and change services, but that is minimal. I personal use both c4 and sonos distribution in my home and it works great. the questions is cost, pre-wire, and do you want better speakers than what sonos has.

 

He's not using one of the Sonos Speakers, I believe hes talking about the Connect and the Connect Amp. So he can play into any speakers he wants. 

 

OP:

 

I'm a fan of the Sonos Connect into a Matrix of some sort, be it C4 or a third party product, vs option 2. 

 

Personally I'd spend a few more bucks to get an audio matrix that does both analog and digital inputs/outputs.  Avocation makes a great matrix that has both inputs, converts one to the other, and can route any output to any input (analog or digital).   Future proofing your installation is a good thing and this does that. 

[Gary Leeds UK]

We use sonos on HC250 have 4 rooms with sonos speakers and it works very well.

HC250 does not run slow

[BARThompson]

If I do use sonos and the EV plugin - is C4 able to detect commands by a sonos app/controller? The reason for asking is - if I tell sonos to play a song can C4 detect this and then tune the receiver to the correct input or would I have to use the C4 controller to make this happen?

[Gary Leeds UK]

Sonos will not turn on your receiver etc.

We do not use the sonos app anymore we only use the C4 and when 2.6 software comes the exta veg driver will allow

You to search.

We live in leeds, if you are close by, come over and have a play

[BARThompson]

I may take you up on that - I live in Manchester but work in Leeds a lot. Whereabouts in Leeds?

[Gary Leeds UK]

Baildon - BD17 

 

I work from home, so just give me a few days notice and you can come and have a play 

[BARThompson]

Great thanks - much appreciated

[WillEV]

If I do use sonos and the EV plugin - is C4 able to detect commands by a sonos app/controller? The reason for asking is - if I tell sonos to play a song can C4 detect this and then tune the receiver to the correct input or would I have to use the C4 controller to make this happen?

 

Yes, this is built into the driver.  It's called Room Auto On.

[csmpez]

Why 2-8 Sonos players for a source? Can't just one do the trick?

[BARThompson]

 

Why 2-8 Sonos players for a source? Can't just one do the trick?

 

Yes - only need one source, but using the sonos Connect:Amp devices allows me to zone the house and power the speakers and buy them one by one on a room by room basis as budget dictates. The alternative as I understand is to use an audio matrix but this will involve a level of initial outlay I am keen to avoid if possible.

 

The reason for the initial question was to see if there were reasons not to go down this path that I dont foresee now (having never used C4 before!!)

[badjesus]

Yes - only need one source, but using the sonos Connect:Amp devices allows me to zone the house and power the speakers and buy them one by one on a room by room basis as budget dictates. The alternative as I understand is to use an audio matrix but this will involve a level of initial outlay I am keen to avoid if possible.

 

The reason for the initial question was to see if there were reasons not to go down this path that I dont foresee now (having never used C4 before!!)

Hey BARThomspon,

I had the EXACT same worries as you. It was tough finding someone who had actually gone down this road and slowly pieced it all together. 

Because of this, I had still even went ahead with a Speakercraft MZC66 route before actually trying to get SONOS up properly. I didn't realize due to my own ignorance as well that you can use ANY input from ANY connect to ANY output. 

However; now that i am fully set up with several zones on SONOS, I would NEVER turn back. I am using a combination of connects and connectamps. You won't regret going this way! 

Do be careful with heat though. I was speaking with our SONOS rep and it was suggested they have had troubles where people stack them one on top of each other. I mounted my sideways to the wall with custom mounts and zip straps and it is nice and clean with not taking up too much space. Maybe twice as much space as a matrix would?

Also, because I wanted all zones active, but didn't have the SONOS to power them all yet I was using simple impedance matching switches. It didn't give me independent control but it did give me sound in all zones at least for parties, or cleaning, or whatever.

Make sure you use the latest driver, it was completely redone. 7.5.3 I think it is?

Also, the only concern I still haven't that I haven't got going yet is how quickly will it play announcements. I hear it is not an issue when done correctly but I have not tried it yet. For example, I want ti disconnect the relay on my doorbell and instead have an audio file play over the sonos zones. I hope to do that this weekend but haven't fooled around with this yet.  

[MakeItAMudLight]

I'm currently running 2 Connects, 2 Connect Amps, a Play 3, a Play 5, and a PlayBar in my house all controlled by the latest Sonos EV driver.  I was unsure about going this route originally but for us it works out well.  If you have any current investment in Sonos and want to be able to add to it piece by piece then I think this is a great way to do so.  

[TCummings]

I am new to this, but I have been working with a Control4 system that includes, among many other things, two Sonos Connects into a Control4 audio matrix switch with the EV driver for control.

 

I can't say enough good things about my experience with the EV driver (especially 7.5+) as well the EV team and their support.

 

A few things I have wrestled with:

• Control4 will do its own thing with multiple Sonos sources into a matrix switch, in terms of which source it selects. For most applications, this either doesn't matter or isn't a big deal. For my application, it was irksome. The idea was to have one Sonos function as scheduled default background music for public zones and have the second Sonos available to play specific selections in an individual room on command. But since Control4 has its own method for selecting which Sonos source to use, that idea was never achieved. We ended up swapping the second Sonos for a Control4 Wireless Music Bridge.
  • There is a way to make the setup work according to EV, but I took a stab at it and it proved to be more trouble than it was worth.
  • You would not experience this issue with players spread out in individual rooms.
• This system is also used for playing announcements. There have been all sorts of issues between announcements and music: volumes being changed, rooms that were off staying on after announcements, announcements firing slowly or not at all. Supposedly this is a known issue with Control4's audio matrix switch. I've put this on the back burner while working on other things, but will be focusing on it again soon.

[badjesus]

I decided to finally play around with announcements with the Sonos driver and C4.
It works... but I am not a HUGE fan. The good news is, my dogs don't bark to "Someone is at the front door" near as much as they do to "Ding Dong".

But, if you press the door bell once, it works. If you press it twice, it seems to be a bug.  (ie doesn't play and if it is cutting out the audio in that room twice of 5 times I had it not return after). 

[BillDawg1974]

Let's think about this from a money standpoint. If you went with all Sonos connect amps the cost is 550 each. $550x8= $4400. If you went and did it the correct way using 2 Sonos connect and an 16 zone Matrix Switch & an 8 zone amp. 2 sonos connects are $350 ea + $1500 for a matrix switch and $1400 for a 8 zone amp = $3600. So the answer is simple it's cheaper and it's the right way to do the system

[badjesus]

Let's think about this from a money standpoint. If you went with all Sonos connect amps the cost is 550 each. $550x8= $4400. If you went and did it the correct way using 2 Sonos connect and an 16 zone Matrix Switch & an 8 zone amp. 2 sonos connects are $350 ea + $1500 for a matrix switch and $1400 for a 8 zone amp = $3600. So the answer is simple it's cheaper and it's the right way to do the system

Depends on how you do it, and some people don't want to drop that coin all at once.

I probably have less than $500 invested personally in my entire SONOS system (less C4 driver). Some were won, some were amazing kijiji finds, some were gifts. 

 

On top of this, there are benefits to SONOS. Some people when visiting (IE my brother) I don't want to have full access to C4 but I am find with him playing DJ. So he can use the SONOS amp to do this fly right from his phone. 

The features of SONOS for music playability with Google Play Music subscription is a huge asset for me. It is great to have it separate when you need it. It is great to be able to start small and grow. It is great to be able to retrofit a lot easier by not having them all in one centralized location. There are A LOT of benefits. 

Also, you can generally pick up a decent multi channel signal sensing old amp that works just fine for 2 channel in ceilings on Kijiji or wherever used. As long as you use volume with SONOS you are fine. I have an 8 ch speakercraft that I got the same time as my mzc66 that I am going to end up using with connects so I don't require connect amps. 

There are a lot more options with SONOS than a c4 matrix. I think in all instances though, the kicker is most of us already had sonos. 

[AK1]

Sonos has two major assets:

 

1) It is an awesome aggregator of music services

2) If you can't run speaker wire, it offers a wireless music mesh

 

If 2) does not apply to you, there is no good reason to do anything other than a C4 matrix / amp and as many Sonos Connect units in your rack as required. 

[bdo21]

We will be building a new house in 2yrs or so (which will include a full control4 fit out with whole house audio) and I am reluctant to buy anything now which will be redundant in the new house. However, I am also keen to improve the sound from our TV today (just TV speakers at the moment). I am considering whether to purchase a sonos playbar (with potentially another sonos speaker for another room given I would have the option) so I am trying to decide whether I would use sonos in the new house.

If you were building a new c4 system today with no constraints regarding wiring, pre-existing equipment, etc, would you install a sonos system or a different audio system?

Thank you

[thecodeman]

I can't think of another system like SONOS that I would install in it's stead. If SONOS meets your needs for music streaming or sound bar or wireless distribution, it's pretty much the "standard" in the industry right now. Even with a more "traditional" distributed audio system, I still use sonos as a source because of the services it offers and the control we get with the EV driver.

[AK1]

It's important not to confuse Sonos with the infrastructure, wire etc to distribute music. Sonos is a primarily a great music aggregation service. It also offers a wireless means to play the music via its own wireless hardware.

 

If you have the luxury of a new build, I can't think of any scenario that makes sense to use Sonos speakers / playbars to play music throughout the house instead of a multi-room amp, speaker wire and your own choice of speakers (and of course as many Sonos Connect units as you want).  

[SMHarman]

We will be building a new house in 2yrs or so (which will include a full control4 fit out with whole house audio) and I am reluctant to buy anything now which will be redundant in the new house. However, I am also keen to improve the sound from our TV today (just TV speakers at the moment). I am considering whether to purchase a sonos playbar (with potentially another sonos speaker for another room given I would have the option) so I am trying to decide whether I would use sonos in the new house.

If you were building a new c4 system today with no constraints regarding wiring, pre-existing equipment, etc, would you install a sonos system or a different audio system?

Thank you

I would get an HC250 / SR250 and an AVR and as many speakers as you want for the living room.

All can be recycled into the new system.

[wappinghigh]

Ok. I have had a Sonos networked Audio system now for years. With ZP zoneplayers out in the periphery.. 8 of them

 

In my next house, I am seriously thinking of putting in a 16x16 C4 Analog Matrix .Seriously. 

 

In fact this may well pull me back into Control4 land... LOL Am I crazy??

 

hahaha If this matrix will do what I want..

 

I think the ideal set up is going to be Sonos ZP's all together in the one place in the rack fed into this matrix, then fed to power amps... that is as long as I can pull speaker wire around the house...

 

Having lived with Sonos for years I tell you why I am thinking of changiing how I roll it out next time..

 

I'm fed up with Sonos's attitude to music services (Spotify in particular) and to hi rez playback. And DLNA sucks in this regard..

 

My new setup should allow me to swap in and out network music streamer as I chose.. giving me ultimate fexibility without to much clutter out at the periphery..

 

This is a huge advantage, now I detect a souring of Sonos's atittude..

 

Could someone please answer my multiple, multiroom thread about how the 16x16 audio matrix works??

 

Who would have thought!!

 

LOL

 

Cheers

[SMHarman]

Or if 8 zones is enough the 8 zone matrix amp.

Anyway. Unless there are 8 of you some of those Sonos can be recycled on eBay to reduce your cost to change.

Sonos, matrix and a music bridge or two to parachute in any DLNA, AirPlay and Bluetooth. Any other hirez with direct connection.

Sounds a good plan and at 8 zines the cost is a wash.