cdepaola Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Interesting, quick read. Basically Tony Fadell says Control4, and other like it, have it all wrong. Though his description of how it should work seems to match control4 to a tee. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Interesting, quick read. Basically Tony Fadell says Control4, and other like it, have it all wrong. Though his description of how it should work seems to match control4 to a tee. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNo link but sounds like someone who is trying to catch up. Remember phones with apps were stupid to Steve Jobs until he did it Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 http://www.fastcodesign.com/3036830/innovation-by-design/nest-ceo-tony-fadell-on-why-jetsons-esque-connected-homes-just-dont-wor First paragraph he talks about great induvidual products (and maybe 10-20 years down the line making it all work together), next he talks about creating a platform by "synergizing" with Google. OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 My view after installing Hue Light Bulbs is the only way forward is to have one platform controlling everything. Otherwise your live is just playing about with your Ipad etc - Going from App to App. Saying that, Harmony Remotes are trying to do this and no doubt some teenager with have designed a system (App) to bring all thesetogether within the next year. That's the issue C4 need to understand. My view , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Ha, I did forget the link, sorry and thank you Cyknight. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The reality is not unlike the 80's....too many remotes to run the TV.Now it's too many apps to run the house. So ultimately there needs to be one 'app' to oversee the others and make them all talk and share.Sound familiar? The trouble is all the other apps don't like to share and play well together with out some heavy lifting by the master app, unless you believe a Homekit or Revolv can get everyone to play nice together....but that doesn't look like it's going to happen when Apple can't even get Fitbit to join health kit. All you need is one or two key holdouts and your platform that's going to change the world is toast. Control4 has always been billed as a home operating system, the hardware is necessary because the other companies don't want to share their sandbox. And even when they do, they still hold back to protect their nest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK1 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 And I think this accurately underpins Apple's Homekit market entry... The reality is not unlike the 80's....too many remotes to run the TV.Now it's too many apps to run the house. So ultimately there needs to be one 'app' to oversee the others and make them all talk and share.Sound familiar? The trouble is all the other apps don't like to share and play well together with out some heavy lifting by the master app, unless you believe a Homekit or Revolv can get everyone to play nice together....but that doesn't look like it's going to happen when Apple can't even get Fitbit to join health kit. All you need is one or two key holdouts and your platform that's going to change the world is toast. Control4 has always been billed as a home operating system, the hardware is necessary because the other companies don't want to share their sandbox. And even when they do, they still hold back to protect their nest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 First paragraph he talks about great induvidual products (and maybe 10-20 years down the line making it all work together), next he talks about creating a platform by "synergizing" with Google. OK. Pretty much quit reading after this nonsense. Saying that, Harmony Remotes are trying to do this and no doubt some teenager with have designed a system (App) to bring all thesetogether within the next year. I came from Harmony to C4. You do realize that Logitech was very close to discontinuing Harmony completely? I thought Harmony was great, but I'd question their ability to change directions successfully now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSDave Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Keep in mind that majority of consumers think a harmony remote properly programmed(even with all its limitations) is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Home automation consumers with systems like C4, Savant, RTI, Crestron are in the minority. So i really think that Homekit has the potential to capture the majority share of the "Universal App Control" market. Because it will be "good enough" for majority of the people out there. Just like VHS and Beta. Everyone can agree that Beta was better quality, but VHS was good enough, and that is mainly what made it successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubben Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Most people use their 3-12 original remotes. Its not the best solution per se. Anyway, the idea of HA for me is to get all my stuff connected, and make them do things based on each others commands. That will never be possible with different apps.But to explain that to someone whos experiencing a "hallelulja-moment" because he/she now can control most of his/hers gear without moving around in the room, and flip to different physical handheld devices... thats tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qVAMPIREp Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Apple will address these App integration issues with the Apple TV (See previous posts on HomeKit) and Google will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesterwilson Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I agree with some of what he said. Many people are interested in home automation, the vast majority of them do not share the same interest that we do on this forum. They know they want automation but not at the cost of a fully blown HA system. For them these products (thermostats, bulbs, etc) fulfill there desire for home automation. This is the majority of people not the minority, hence why Nest was acquired for $3 billion and C4 value is in the millions. I think eventually google and apple will have there own ecosystem with HA products (kind of like android and ios products). It will fulfill the majority's desire for HA, control4 will remain a niche market for hardcore enthusiasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I think you can think of it as a kia vs Mercedes....c4 IMHO is the Mercedes...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I think he is right that as a general rule people don't buy platforms, they buy products. Example; around 2004-2005 MS Windows probably had around a 90% share of the personal computer market. So it would have made sense for all these people to get a Zune MP3 player instead of an iPod because the Zune would tie into the platform they already had the best. But it didn't work that way, people bought the product they liked best. That said, there is still a long way to go before any one player can change the AV game completely. To much variation in all the configs. But it is getting better as we are moving away from having all kinds of different devices that need to be hooked into a system. I long for the day that we can buy a single box that brings either an OTA signal, cable or satellite feed, runs streaming apps, plays content from a NAS and also plays video games. I think you can think of it as a kia vs Mercedes....c4 IMHO is the Mercedes...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I hate the "Mercedes" example so much. Went to a local control4 dealer one day with the parts I needed and had a system spec'd out exactly how I wanted it. The guy smirked and said something like "You don't just go to a Mercedes dealership and ask how much it costs for the steering wheel, the engine, etc.". Then he started asking if I had my home plans with me and the square footage of my house. Terrible experience. I think eventually google and apple will have there own ecosystem with HA products (kind of like android and ios products). It will fulfill the majority's desire for HA, control4 will remain a niche market for hardcore enthusiasts. Problem is there is not a real solution for hardcore enthusiasts outside of 1) literally building your own solution from scratch 2) using something like CastleOS or Homeseer that are pretty expensive and don't have a 1/3 of the features of the big players (plus the look ancient in the tools and UI). It looks like iRule and Roomie are now starting to introduce some sort of small controller. Those 2 are also wanting to branch out more into the custom installer world so we will see what happens. Custom installers usually want the products and software they use to be exclusive to dealers so we will see where that leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The reason I used the example is that WeMo, harmony etc all automation components but none are the whole picture. They all work but they don't have a unified experience Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The problem with the line of thought is that he states people want products, not platforms. Then he goes on to 'develop' a platform that incorporates those products - much like C4, Crestron, Savant etc etc. Assuming he is correct however, that 'platform' is going to be based ON a 'product' (AppleTV for example). Nothing guarantees that iOS (to use an example) is going to be around for a very long time - because someone comes along with a better 'product' then AppleTV, iPad and iPhone. Feel free to replace the Apple units with Google/Android equivalents, or RIM/Blackberry to drive the point home. The 'advantage' of a separate 3rd party 'platform' is that it can incorporate all these 'products' while not being (as) dependent - whether that 3rd party is/will be Control4, Crestron, Savant or someone else (including separate divisions of Apple/Google) is another question. THAT'S the part I'm not overly exited about when we get home-automation on an AppleTV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Pretty funny that Nest just bought a platform - http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/24/nest-owns-revolv/?ncid=rss_truncated Last week people didn't want Platforms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qVAMPIREp Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Dire times ahead for Control4 indeed... Apple, Google, Samsung etc. finally going All-In on HA! So much for investors dilussional dreams of Google buying Control4. Control4 has a very short window left to transform its business model. If you listen closely you can almost hear the sound of fiddles and smell the smoke while Nero plays... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I respectfully disagree with your assessment. RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I don't know about any of those guys being ALL IN. They have other business lines and haven't sold anything as a result Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qVAMPIREp Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I don't know about any of those guys being ALL IN. They have other business lines and haven't sold anything as a result Sent from my XT1060 using TapatalkThey are aquiring HA hardware and software companies paying vast sums of money. Do you really think that is just a coincidence and that they have no end game planned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I agree they are entering the market strong but they are not all in. Control4 is all in. Control4 only business is automation. That puts them all in Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qVAMPIREp Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I agree they are entering the market strong but they are not all in. Control4 is all in. Control4 only business is automation. That puts them all in Sent from my XT1060 using TapatalkThat simple definition of All-in being one business line does not apply to Tech Giants. With that definition Apple could only make PCs, iPads, or phones, software, TV's, iTunes etc. but not all at the same time. Being large enough to leverage ALL of their technology is what makes them deadly to niche companies like Control4 which is possibly why Control4 is busy buying up companies like Extra Veggies and CardAccess. If Apple or Google bought them C4 would soon be without drivers and many devices. Do you see where they end up? Control4 and Crestron NEED to support Homekit and Google to survive for long, and this means opening up their platform and Business model. Control4 needs to grow its user base very rapidly, but that will simply not happen with the status quo. There are not enough dealers to handle this growth and even if there were 10X more dealers, consumers do not like the business model. It's a pain in the ass, expensive and should not be necessary in 2014. The stagnation of HA odoption by consumers has created Apple and Googles entry opportunity. They have smelled the blood in the water and are circling..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Must say that - my ikettle and Phillip hue light bulbs work great with C4 Say that the driver are extra vegetables, let's just hope they let EV staff work like they did before.Still feel they have a great product, but need to see the bigger picture, they have even stop comments going on thereFacebook account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qVAMPIREp Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Must say that - my ikettle and Phillip hue light bulbs work great with C4 Say that the driver are extra vegetables, let's just hope they let EV staff work like they did before.Still feel they have a great product, but need to see the bigger picture, they have even stop comments going on thereFacebook account.Control4 is a great product! They just need to get a giant smack upside the head before they become totally irrelevant to the 99.9% of consumers that don't know anything about HA yet and will likely get their first taste of it from Apple and Google. After that it's not going to go well for them.... not well at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.