Trigger Concord4 Alarm programmatically

[deeonline]

Hi,

Is there a way to put Concord4 into alarm programmatically based on certain events? I've tried setting `Concord4->Device Variables->ALARM_STATE` device variable to `true`, but it doesn't actually trigger the alarm.

 

Thank you.

[AdamT]

There is a way, and your not doing it correctly but you really have to ask yourself a few questions. We also need more info to help you.

1. WHY would you want to trigger your alarm on an event

2. Is the alarm monitored, if so have you told the company that does the monitoring that you are doing this?

3. What is the alarm, what is the module, what is your controller?

4. Are you sure you want to do this?

[turls]

I think a great example would be an open garage door while the alarm is armed.  In my case I'd want the siren to go off to scare the intruder.

 

Or other contact sensors that aren't tied into Concord directly.

[Cyknight]

In which case you'd likely want to connect it to the alarm panel directly instead.

There are a few relatively easy way to achieve such things, but yes it would need to be considered carefully. Especially if it's monitored.

[deeonline]

There is a way, and your not doing it correctly but you really have to ask yourself a few questions. We also need more info to help you.

1. WHY would you want to trigger your alarm on an event

I have a sensor in group 25 that chimes when it senses motion. As far as I understood, this group doesn't trigger the alarm. However, I do want this sensor to trigger the alarm during HH:MM - HH:MM timeframe and continue to chime during all other time.

 

2. Is the alarm monitored, if so have you told the company that does the monitoring that you are doing this?

Not yet. I want to get all configurations programmed first.

 

3. What is the alarm, what is the module, what is your controller?

Sorry, I don't think I understand what you mean by "alarm" and "module" in this particular context. The controller is HC800.

 

4. Are you sure you want to do this?

I believe so. Unless there is a better way to achieve my goal.

[deeonline]

@adamt Any way you could tell us how to trigger Control4 alarm programmatically? Thank you.

[chicagoskiguy]

Could you not just use the relays on the back of a controller to "trip" a fake contact on your alarm panel? Would that not work?

[Cyknight]

Yep, create a virtual zone on the panel and trigger it with a relay, could be set to any type of zone you'd like, ie delayed entry, 24h burglar, 24 fire and so on.

The difficult part is if this panel is monitored - security monitoring companies need your zone info, so that would need to be updated. Generally they do NOT like to have anything like this set up and may refuse (though they tend to accept panic buttons set up this way) - and lying creates a liability towards insurance and false alarm claims. In other words - consider carefully if this is what you want to do.

 

It's a free world - except that there are lots of rules and limitations.

[deeonline]

Thank you so much for your advice. I am new to this awesome automation stuff, but I think I get it. I'll read up on virtual zones in Concord 4. My understanding the relay will have to be a Zigbee Control4 relay that my controller will send commands to.

[deeonline]

On a separate note, is there a group in Concord 4 that will have sensor chime when not armed, but will trigger the alarm when the panel is armed? I am reading the table with the list of groups, but not sure what would be the proper group for that. Thx.

[chicagoskiguy]

Thank you so much for your advice. I am new to this awesome automation stuff, but I think I get it. I'll read up on virtual zones in Concord 4. My understanding the relay will have to be a Zigbee Control4 relay that my controller will send commands to.

 

There are relays on the back of the your HC-800 you could use - no extra equipment needed, but you would need to get 2 wires from the Control4 Controller to the panel (in my case they are about 4 feet apart), or at least to a contact wired to the zone you want.

 

For the record I can't see see a reason why you would want to do this, but who am I to judge. 

 

One thing I don't think you've ever stated - what problem are you trying to solve? You've communicated what you arrived at as a solution, but take the alarm and Control4 out of it for a minute and and state what problem you are trying to solve. Maybe the group could propose some different solutions which may be a better solution. 

[deeonline]

I see @chicagoskiguy. I totally forgot about relays in the back of 800. It totally makes sense.

 

In response to @adamt question #1, I've stated the problem I am trying to solve as:

 

I have a sensor in group 25 that chimes when it senses motion. As far as I understood, this group doesn't trigger the alarm. However, I do want this sensor to trigger the alarm during HH:MM - HH:MM timeframe and continue to chime during all other time.

 

 

If this is not feasible, my second option would be having this sensor triggering alarm when the system is armed and chiming when it is disarmed. Kind of like group 13 (instant perimiter) is now + chiming when it is disarmed. If there is a group that would let me do this, I would appreciate you sharing it with me.

 

Hope this makes sense. If not, I'll be more than happy to answer any additional questions.

 

Thank you for your time trying to help me with this.

[chicagoskiguy]

Again, you're restating the problem as it pertains to the solution you're come up with i.e. using Control4 to trigger the alarm.

 

I guess I was looking for something more like "I want to hear a chime when my kids open and close the garage door, but I still want the garage door to be able to trip the alarm" - I have no idea if this is what you want, but if people could understand the problem you were trying to solve, they might be able to recommend a different approach that may work out better. 

[deeonline]

OK. I'll try to reword it from a user perspective. Here is the user story:

 

 

"

1. I want the driveway sensor to chime when it senses motion.

2. When the security panel is armed and the time is within the preset timeframe "HH:MM-HH:MM", I want this sensor to trigger the alarm (Option A)

3. If #2 is not feasible, I want the driveway sensor to trigger alarm whenever the security panel is armed (Option .

"

 

Option A is ideal, Option B is a second choice. Hope this is clear now.

[AdamT]

Dee,

 

I have also been waiting for more details. Now that you have provided them I will tell you this. I dont know where you live BUT if you have your alarm trigger anytime the driveway sensor goes off you will get many false alarms. If you have your system monitored and police come they will get sick of it real quick. In our area if you have false alarms they start to charge you a fine for it and they seem to not come at all because they think it will be false. That being said.....

 

#1 Why not just put the sensor into the alarm panel directly and have that go off? Why put C4 in the middle of it?

OR

#2 Why not just wire the sensor into C4, and then wire a sounder or light into a relay of the C4 controller and when motion is detected it makes a noise to scare them or flashes the light to let them know you know they are there Keeping it off your alarm.

 

I see what you are trying to do but I have been working with C4 and alarm panels for many years and I would try to talk you out of it if you were my customer. I also try telling customers that mounting an outdoor camera that emails them based on motion isn't effective because of the amount of false triggers. The ones who don't listen typically call me and have that changed with in a month because they get sick of the false alarms. Just saying.....

[deeonline]

Thanks @adamt for your feedback and concern. Avoiding false alarms is definitely one of my main goals, especially since we get charged for each false one. My house is in pretty secluded location, so if there was any motion in driveway during specified time period, it would be an intruder 99.99%. That's why I thought having it trigger an alarm, let's say, from 12:00am till 6:00am, while chiming during day time, was acceptable. I'll give it some more thought, though. Looks like putting security panel into alarm state via C4 is an anti-pattern.

By the way, I am in LA. I guess I need to update my profile.

[JerryR]

Some programming I had been pondering was to create a macro to trip the alarm.  Then use the macro to create a panic button on a couple of buttons around the house.  In essence to create the ability to set the alarm off in a few locations (i.e. master bedroom) if you thought an intruder was in the house or someone was outside the house.  The siren would go off and the monitoring company would be alerted.  That is why something like this would work for me. 

[calbear]

Here's a related use case, where I would like to program an alarm trigger:

 

* By design, the outside side door into our garage doesn't trigger or turn off the alarm when opened because sometimes a service person needs to access our garage (only) and has an access code to use this door to enter the garage legitimately.  (note: The door has a Yale lock that's in the project and an alarm-integrated door sensor; the service company has a code that only opens the side door to the garage, NOT the door from the garage to the house.)

* When we arm the alarm, the service person can access the garage, but not the house which is still locked and armed.

* But if this garage side door becomes "open" based on the sensor without being properly unlocked based on the Yale lock, this would mean the door was kicked in and the alarm should be tripped.

 

I haven't tried to program this yet... is it possible?  Any flaws in the logic you see or recommendations?

Thanks