JamesxJ Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I'm pretty much at my wits end with an issue I've been having with my C4 setup. My dealer has been unable to resolve the issue, and I'm turning to the forms to see if anyone has suggestions of potential causes that I direct my dealer to look into. First, I'll describe my setup. I have an HC-250 running OS version 2.5.3.429171-res hooked up to a Marantz SR7008 receiver controlled via IP and hooked up to an Epson Powerlite 3020 projector. I'm running HDMI from the receiver to a balun which sends the HDMI signal over Cat6 to a balun near the projector that converts it back to HDMI. The director is connected via Cat6 to a dongle at the projector that hooks up to the RS232 port on the projector. I'm using an Asus RT-A68U router with reserved IPs for the director and the receiver. I also have an SR-250 remote. Now the issue (experience is similar whether I am using the SR-250 remote or the iPad app): Approximately 9 times out of 10, when I select the source via the "watch" button on the remote, the receiver turns on, correctly connects to and starts up the AV source (TiVo or BlueRay or Xbox) but does not turn on the projector. I then have to use the projector remote to turn on the projector. Then, when done watching whatever, I hit the "room off" button on the remote and the receiver and any AV sources turn off, but 5 times out of 10 the projector does not turn off. If that weren't interesting enough - a random time period later - the projector will randomly turn on when no-one is around, or randomly shut off when someone is watching something. For example, here is what happened today:1. Attempted to turn on the projector using the SR-250 remote - projector did not turn on.2. Used the projector remote to turn on the unit3. Waited 5 minutes, hit the "room off" button, projector did not turn off. Used the projector remote to turn off the unit.4. Waited 5 minutes, attempted to turn off the projector using the remote - projector did not turn on.5. Used the projector remote to turn on the unit.6. Waited 5 minutes, hit the "room off" button, projector did not turn off. Used the projector remote to turn off the unit.7. Approximately 5 hours later, my wife repeated steps 1-2 and started watching something8. 15 minutes into watching something, projector turned itself off.9. She turned on the projector with the projector remote. 5 minutes later it turned itself off again.10. She turned it back on with the remote - and its been on for the last hour. I could expound on the other random timings of projector on/off that I am experiencing but I won't. Suffice it to say - I never have a problem with C4 turning on any of the other AV equipment or a Samsung TV which is also hooked up in another room in the same maner (baluns, cat6, etc, but controlled via IP not RS232). The issue is only with the projector. So any thoughts on where I can direct my dealer to look? Obviously I've tried things like restarting all the equipment, turning off the auto-sleep timer on the projector, etc... Last time my dealer was out, he installed a different driver for the projector to see if that would help. I've got to believe it either has something to do with the driver or the programming (like delay, etc...) - but I am just a consumer not a pro - so I don't know. Any ideas would be immensely appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Possible causes:-RS232 - how long is that run? If all there is is a passive RJ45 to serial DB9 converter then you may start seeing issues in runs as short as 20f (yes sometimes it works a charm over 200 feet). In other words, using rs232 that way may not be an option.If it's a two-way driver, loss of connection can certainly start acting up as it's trying to synch a device that isn't listening. Best bet is to use a networked serial device instead to make the run into a normal network run. Or move to IR control - Epson's codes are discreet at least, so they work well enough. If nothing else you could move to IR and eliminate serial being the issue. -Was the serial port used to control the projector changed at any point - it could be a bad port on a controller -Turning OFF at random can also have a completely different cause - the projector itself to be exact. Overheating, bad bulb, bad boards - and yes that can cause control issues as well.Easy enough to test, disconnect the serial for awhile. If the Projector is still turning off at random, it may be the projector. -HDMI control. Make sure any and all HDMI control on all sources, receivers and endpoints are turned off. HDMI CEC and other control methods all too often don't mix and the craziest things happen. How crazy? Well I had a TV in one room turning on and off a TV in a different room (two completely different brands too), only on turning on and off one of the TVs, only about 50% of the time.If you've checked to make sure all forms of HDMI control are off, and you've disconnected the serial as well and it STILL tuns off at random - it's probably time to call Epson. -One last, somewhat unlikely culprit - the factory remote. It's only happened to me once, but it has happened - in my case a TV's remote still lying in a drawer near the TV itself was sending out signals, randomly triggering channel changes (causing the TV to leave the source input or even turning on at random). Beyond that, I'd use ComposerPRO's detective suite to check for any programming that involves the projector and/or the theatre room - see if there's anything there. DO note that Epson IS known to ignore serial and IP commands WHILE it is making the hDMI 'handshake (or loosing it). So the more 'normal' issues you have with power off may be that - fixable by editing the driver and adding a 10 second delay before sending the off command (has to be in driver, not programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 For something as simple as a projector, I'd swap out the RS232 control for IR control. You should be able to use the same wires, and it's just simpler. About the only command necessary for a projector is ON / OFF. If the IR driver for it supports discrete ON and OFF, you're good to go. Cyknight's advice on HDMI CEC is also spot-on. It can definitely cause 'ghost-type' issues. RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyfrezze Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 I was having this same issue with my Epson 6020ub. I was using IR at first but was having issues with the system not always turning on and so I converted it to serial (had run cat6 to the ceiling mounted projector when I installed it). At first I had issues with the driver and ended up moving it to the 3020 serial driver and found it finally worked. Worked fine for several weeks using the SR250 remote or the Next Gen switch at the top of my basement stairs for turning on the basement. Then I started having issues where everything but the projector would turn on, but it would almost always turn off with the room off buttons. I also found myself having issues with the projector turning off in the middle of me playing a game, but when this would happen the projector would turn off and so would the receiver that was directly connected via HDMI. I thought it may have at first been an issue with C4 but then soon ruled that out. I think I finally found the issue was with the HDMI CeC in the projector options. I turned off the setting that allowed the projector to be controlled by the reciever and haven't had any random shutdowns in the last week and a half since I changed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Definitely check the HDMI CEC settings. Also, if you're only using a one-way RS232 driver for the projector, make sure that there are only 2 connected pins, transmit (c4 side), receive (projector side) and ground. I've noticed several one way drivers cause issues to the system because the receive pins were still connected. I can only assume that the units were sending responses back to the system and didn't know what to do with them, causing uncontrollable/unresponsive behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb47 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I also have a 3020 and had this issue. I used Composer to turn on debug mode and found that the Epson driver was polling the projector very frequently, like every 30 seconds. When everything is working this does not cause an issue, but eventually for whatever reason the projector stops responding in a timely fashion. Even though the driver does not get a response the polling commands keep coming and queue up. So when a on or off command comes later the projector has to process all the preceding polls before it responds to the command. So like you, I would turn the room on and everything came up except the projector. I would then manually turn it on with the physical on button. It ended up where there were tens of thousands of commands queued up, mostly status polls but some on/off commands so the projector would "randomly" turn itself on and off. I ended up turning off polling in the driver, there is a button for it in Composer when you view the properties. Problem is it resets any time the controller reboots so I have to remember to go in and turn it off if the power blips etc. I would think the driver could be improved by not letting the poll queue build up higher than a certain number of commands. Also it would be good if it remembered the setting to disable polling between reboots. I also seem to remember trying a different driver for the Epson and having the same issue, but it has been a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 About the only command necessary for a projector is ON / OFF. If the IR driver for it supports discrete ON and OFF, you're good to go. Glad nobody at Sony asked you before they did the IP and Serial driver for my 1000ES. Maybe not all "necessary" but nice to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Glad nobody at Sony asked you before they did the IP and Serial driver for my 1000ES. Maybe not all "necessary" but nice to have. I was talking *the absolute minimum* required for a Projector. Many projector installs have a single input setup, and honestly, after initial settings, don't do much other than power on / off. Funny you mention it, actually, someone at Sony *did* ask me, since I wrote the 1000ES driver... It's been so long, it may have been the 600ES driver, and Sony "updated" it for the 1000ES. In any case, I've worked with the Sony projector people quite a bit, more than I can say. Good to work with, and that reflects in the good protocol and hopefully good driver. RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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