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IFTTT - really?


badjesus

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Hey guys,

So, while I know I am probably going to get flamed for this, I am almost starting to REALLY regret my C4 equipment. 

Ok, so I am just being a bit whiny, and I know that C4 is still my best option for media control, alarm integration, cameras, relay/contact control, etc but too be honest... when it comes to actual SMART home interfaces and ease of use.... I am starting to REALLY regret it.

 

I have been looking A LOT into smart things, wink, automatic, hue, IFTTT, android wear, etc and the ABUNDANCE of connection via open API's and it is astonishing the things that I can accomplish with my wink hub that either can't be done with C4 or are just a plain pain in the ass needlessly. (I know I will be asked to elaborate, so just simple things like my connection to my FitBit weigh scale in my house. It took me 3 seconds *literally* to automate actions based on it). 

 

So, I started reading on C4 and the ability to do this. There are talks of a POP3 driver or PUSHOVER integration that can help do SOME things.... but I am hoping to start a conversation as a group and start putting our minds together on ways to SAFELY open up C4 to IFTTT options. 

 

The rest of the smart world is expanding faster than C4 for FUN consumer additions. Just little things like not wanting a large box sticking out of my outllets to control 120v devices... C4 doesn't have a wall outlet yet? Why? 

Don't get be wrong, I am not bashing C4... but I feel it is losing from the benefit of allowing an option for simple consumer add ons. Leave the complex controls and media set up to the pros... but ... also allow an end user to have fun with his HUE bulbs, or with geo-tagged controls, or link actions with his twitter account. 

 

Anyways, if anyone else is interested, I would LOVE to discuss and come up with some triggered events for IFTTT and find the best way to easily integrate with C4 (HTTP, POP3, API with WINK?, etc)

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...when it comes to actual SMART home interfaces and ease of use...

You're mixing smart up with advanced control - Smart doesn't need ease of use (or even an interface) - as you'd never need to 'use' anything to begin with.

The nest thermostat is a classic example on a small scale - Nest isn't 'easy to use to do all sorts of things with', it (when at it's best!) is something you should never have to touch at all.

Who cares if you can set your temperature remotely, or with a pretty or easy to understand interface, or based off of time of day, outdoor temperature and so on - when the thermostat does all this for you?

That at least is the tough behind making 'machines' truly 'smart'. Whether that is what you or me always want is a different matter.

Where it's lacking is in it's ability to integrate it's best features into more truly smart applications - but that's a different story.

 

 

rest of the smart world is expanding faster than C4 for FUN consumer additions

For better or worse, at this time I don't think C4 is aiming to be fun - it's aiming to be functional. Again - for better or for worse, not looking to start an argument on whether that's the right course or not.

Perhaps there is more desire for 'frivolous' fun things than for 'functional' things - but I don't call the shots.

 

C4 doesn't have a wall outlet yet? Why?

Likely because there isn't enough call to make one - no market for a product, no product. There's lots of similar alternatives already - why reinvent the wheel (or pay for the plans) if there seems to be a limited interest?

Yes I realize this was just an example, then again - the thought could apply to ANY example.

And while all you want is a 120v controlled outlet, most of the world would find that outlet utterly useless - don't forget that Control4 doesn't cater to North America only.

What you, me (yes that's right I'd like one of those too ;) ) or even every single dealer and end-user on this forum wants means nothing unless it's representative of the desires of the bigger market. It very likely isn't.

 

 

 

For IFTTT style use in C4 (and IFTTT integration):

https://www.houselogix.com/shop/notification-suite

 

So, while I know I am probably going to get flamed for this

 

Oh I'm sure not nearly as much as I'll be for this post ^_^

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Wouldn't you agree though that a lot of the IFTTT recipes can be recreated with C4 programming, especially if you throw Chowmain's Notification Suite driver into the mix (as Cyknight mentioned)?  Look at the IFTTT recipes for ideas and re-create them using the existing tools.  That would be a good thing to get a group together to accomplish.

 

For example, I can fire off Waze automatically when Automatic detects a trip starting.  I should be able to do all kinds of cool triggers from Automatic with the right creative C4 programming. 

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Wouldn't you agree though that a lot of the IFTTT recipes can be recreated with C4 programming, especially if you throw Chowmain's Notification Suite driver into the mix (as Cyknight mentioned)?  Look at the IFTTT recipes for ideas and re-create them using the existing tools.  That would be a good thing to get a group together to accomplish.

 

For example, I can fire off Waze automatically when Automatic detects a trip starting.  I should be able to do all kinds of cool triggers from Automatic with the right creative C4 programming. 

 

I am not sure, I guess that is the question. :) We should start tooling with the notification tool. I will go pick it up today.

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Cyknight

 

I agree for the most part with what you have said, but I guess at the end of the day, there IS a whole other market that is very closely related to with what they are doing that is being attacked by smaller fish. With the resources that they have, I can't see how it would be a bad idea to come out with a device similar to SMARTTHINGS or WINK that would allow an end user to tap in to their C4 device with limited abilities (similar to the home composer) but have a separate $100 hub that would allow for IFTTT style connections and programming. Have the device keeps logs for CI users to view remotely in case there are any issues or conflicts that need to be diagnosed. It almost creates another revenue stream for CI and a whole new entry level, DIY market for C4. 

You get the customer in the door, interested, and when they love it and want to expand you go exclusive on the "pro" gear and have them contact their authorized dealer. 

 

In my opinion, they are completely missing out on an emerging market, alienating customers like me, and missing out on integrations with other products. 

 

Whether you classify the items "smart" or not doesn't really matter. Just the ability to link the "internet of things" together with a DIY solution for C4 that doesn't screw over the installers....

 

It is just annoying I guess at this point. There are certain things with my system that are frustrating to spend SO much money on, to then have a cheaper and better solution show up. Yes, overall, C4 does more, is more stable, and more robust. However; from a consumer standpoint that ONE product that we are missing out on can be a huge kick in the junk.

 

I think the fact that C4 IS so expensive and so "elite", means that they should spend more time to ensure their bases are covered without having to "hack" in features. 

 

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I think you should approach it from make a list of what you want to do and then figure out the automation part

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Good points, I would love to control C4 from my Android Wear device :) That is one that I would love. 

If I could use it's geolocation to do tasks with C4 such as turn my outdoor lights on when I get within 10 feet of my house after being gone for more than 10 mins. 

 

That would be one place to start :)

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Good points, I would love to control C4 from my Android Wear device :) That is one that I would love.

If I could use it's geolocation to do tasks with C4 such as turn my outdoor lights on when I get within 10 feet of my house after being gone for more than 10 mins.

That would be one place to start :)

What do you specifically want to do from Android wear?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Good points, I would love to control C4 from my Android Wear device :) That is one that I would love. 

If I could use it's geolocation to do tasks with C4 such as turn my outdoor lights on when I get within 10 feet of my house after being gone for more than 10 mins. 

 

That would be one place to start :)

 

I already do that with my iOS device and third party drivers (and turn on ceiling fans depending on temperature, etc).  Forget the 10 feet though.  That's beacons, not geolocation.  You aren't going to get anywhere near that level of granularity.  No offense, but the you need to understand those basic concepts and that makes me think you need to do more research into what is already available.

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I already do that with my iOS device and third party drivers (and turn on ceiling fans depending on temperature, etc).  Forget the 10 feet though.  That's beacons, not geolocation.  You aren't going to get anywhere near that level of granularity.  No offense, but the you need to understand those basic concepts and that makes me think you need to do more research into what is already available.

Really, because I don't see ANYTHING like this available for my android device that is as stable as my experience with other IFTTT recipes. 

There is no doubt I do need to do research on the 100,000,000 other third party drivers that exist out there for C4. Unfortunately, I have no interest in that either. It is is GIANT pain in the ass trying to keep up to date with multi vendor updates, additions, etc. Not to mention, for the most part these are guarded from DIY. Remember, I am not talking about DEALER only options. I am talking about simple, fun, expansions. 

 

For example, some people had a simple time setting up SIP communication with third party apps from their phone to their intercom/door stations. I set it up, it was buggy as hell. 

There are a bunch of hack-ins, and back end way of doing things, I know. I guess my attempt here is to see if COULD successfully integrate nearly any IFTTT recipe with C4. 

I through out an example (just one example) but it seems I got flamed for my example, lol. 

If you want, I can pick something different? Geolocation tracking on IFTTT is actually quite accurate. It wouldn't require a beacon. If people are successfully getting tracking by room INSIDE their homes (or at least they claim they are) with difference GEO services, then I am pretty sure I can get it to function from my driveway to the street. 

Maybe I will just start playing around with Chow's notification app and see what I can have fun with, but my hope was to find others like me that are interested in having some fun with it, not just flame about C4. (I started this I know with my rant, maybe I should go back and delete it so this doesn't go further off track).

 

 

If anyone else wants to have some fun and see what we can dream up with IFTTT and C4, let me know what you think of / or would like to do. 

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Wow. After spending some time with c4, I can sympathize with badjesus. C4 is overly complex in today's world and expensive is certain thinga lie lightning. Right now C4 feels like a blackbery , very functional but antiquated while nest/revolv Smartthings and homekit can quickly disrupt this market. that leaves only 2 options , either they innovate quickly or get bought out otherwise they are destined to have the same fate as blackberry.

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Wow. After spending some time with c4, I can sympathize with badjesus. C4 is overly complex in today's world and expensive is certain thinga lie lightning. Right now C4 feels like a blackbery , very functional but antiquated while nest/revolv Smartthings and homekit can quickly disrupt this market. that leaves only 2 options , either they innovate quickly or get bought out otherwise they are destined to have the same fate as blackberry.

I am waiting for home kit to disrupt the market. It doesn't exist yet. Apple announced it but nothing is out

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PStuart was working on 2 way integration with Smartthings ... which sounded awesome

 

What happened with that?

Ran into some ST limitations on parsing local connections.  Concept is working, I have my house integrated both ways, but my main goals for ST integration was to not have to touch the C4 world at all.

 

Since dealers install C4 and users install ST, it was important that I didn't require a driver to be installed on C4 to allow integration.  But with a driver installed, its pretty easy to integrate both ways.

 

What I have been able to do is hook up almost all the C4 zigbee stuff directly to ST hub skipping the C4 server.  Switches, dimmers, sr250's most of the CA stuff all works with ST, unofficially of course.

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Wow. After spending some time with c4, I can sympathize with badjesus. C4 is overly complex in today's world and expensive is certain thinga lie lightning. Right now C4 feels like a blackbery , very functional but antiquated while nest/revolv Smartthings and homekit can quickly disrupt this market. that leaves only 2 options , either they innovate quickly or get bought out otherwise they are destined to have the same fate as blackberry.

Comparing it to Blackberry is perfect! I couldn't have said it better myself. 

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Ran into some ST limitations on parsing local connections.  Concept is working, I have my house integrated both ways, but my main goals for ST integration was to not have to touch the C4 world at all.

 

Since dealers install C4 and users install ST, it was important that I didn't require a driver to be installed on C4 to allow integration.  But with a driver installed, its pretty easy to integrate both ways.

 

What I have been able to do is hook up almost all the C4 zigbee stuff directly to ST hub skipping the C4 server.  Switches, dimmers, sr250's most of the CA stuff all works with ST, unofficially of course.

 

This is AWESOME Pstuart! I personally am a fan of Wink just because I feel it is growing quicker but I would be more than happy to pick up a SmartThings hub if it means that I can install a driver in C4 and gain that function. My Wife would LOVE it. She LOVED the idea of C4 but hates actually doing anything in it. She still gets me to turn on the TV or uses SONOS app to play music. There are few things she actually does with C4 that isn't automated. 

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Ran into some ST limitations on parsing local connections.  Concept is working, I have my house integrated both ways, but my main goals for ST integration was to not have to touch the C4 world at all.

 

Since dealers install C4 and users install ST, it was important that I didn't require a driver to be installed on C4 to allow integration.  But with a driver installed, its pretty easy to integrate both ways.

 

What I have been able to do is hook up almost all the C4 zigbee stuff directly to ST hub skipping the C4 server.  Switches, dimmers, sr250's most of the CA stuff all works with ST, unofficially of course.

 

You know what, I correct my statement. You Sir, are now my hero! It is official.... HERO! (Can I have the driver, lol)

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C4 is no longer innovating like it previously was doing. At one point c4 was leading the pack. They need to start innovating again or we will see another Blackberry situation. There still is time but it's running out quickly. Unfortunately c4 is now focused on profitability being a public company and innovating will require a significant R&D budget for a year or so until a successful product is launched to boost their revenues and eventual profits. I'm not sure the CEO will be able to convince shareholders the need to focus on R&D for several quarters while short term profitability takes a back seat.

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C4 also has to focus on stability that slows development as bugs are ironed out.

The model does not make hhappy customers when roll outs break their home.

Smaller cos can break things as they are hundreds of dollars investments not 10s of thousands.

That's a very valid point. Maybe it would be possible to sandbox the CI installed portion from a consumer based hub to reduced turn around times on software updates.

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That's a very valid point. Maybe it would be possible to sandbox the CI installed portion from a consumer based hub to reduced turn around times on software updates.

 

The consumer based hubs already exist. They just need to be integrated into C4 in as far as they aren't yet.

Again, WHY would C4 create all these things, reinvent what's already out there (and take all the risks for a much smaller market) - when it is far more sensible to take all these things and make them work with/under control4.

That would require drivers. What did Control4 buy again recently?

 

Just speculating of course...

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I had always thought that C4 had wanted to be a software company and become the OS for home automation. They haven't been successful at partnering with hardware companies to produce products under the C4 umbrella. They did a great job in landing Sony but this far that partnership hasn't been fruitful. I'm hoping that changes.

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