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iPhone compatability


Brad_The_Lucky

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I disagree that the roadmap has been slow/stretched lately, but I'm seeing it from the inside.

The number of new features in the 1.6 release is amazing, even though it doesn't appear so because the GUI is still the standard Control4 GUI (plus the audio zones changes and Rhapsody).

IMHO.

RyanE

Ryan, I'll wait to see the features on 1.6 which, for now, you know about and I don't. I am waiting with baited breath for the release... hopefully next week at the connections conference.

That said, I've alluded to the slowing roadmap several times now, you've taken issue with it, so let me explain myself further.

I do get worried about the amount of resources C4 has to devote to its ever-expanding roadmap. The major updates over the last year have been mainly much needed hardware updates from the original MC and HTC. There hasn't really been a new feature (such as the IP camera) since the 1.3.2 release and besides the screen saver, that's about all of the new functions that have really come on since 1.2. Yes there has been the 10" POE screen and the v2 remote, but these are mostly add-on changes and applying learning from the old designs. 4sight was part of the original promise during the 1.2 days so I don't count it here. There have been a lot of bug fixes in the overall code and minor changes to programming functionality, but these aren't necessarily new things. Net-net, C4 has spent a lot of its resources fulfilling the original promises made in the original 2005 release and until 1.3, it wasn't able to do much more than that.

At the same time, I worry about how long it has taken to bring Rhapsody on board and bring on new products like the 7" touchscreen. Even the 7" touchscreen doesn't seem incredibly ambitious. Its a great product and an improvement (I am getting one), but its basically a matter of procuring new hardware and integrating the HD GUI into a touchscreen. And no handheld version so far. On the Rhapsody side, its not Rhapsody per se but the fact that these type of software-intensive products that improve the product without new hardware are too few and far between. Originally the ability to do these was one of the main advantages of an IP-based system such as C4. Now that we are having this iPod SDK conversation, it would seem like this would be a perfect thing to add on, but it seems like this sort of thing is on the "nice-o-have" list in project prioritization.

The whole 777 video thing also scares me...there is literally a hole in the C4 product offering right now where the 777 has disappeared as capability has actually decreased instead of increased. C4 has seen this coming for a while, and hopefully has a plan, but has not been able to move quickly enough to avoid having a gap in the product line. Instead of seeing more 777-like products being offered, the one we did have has gone away. And projects like video playback capabilities aren't quite here yet and may not even be seriously in the pipeline.

Finally, while I like the strategic idea behind C4 getting more into industrial controls (i.e. JCI partnership) and now hospitality, I worry that it will further detract from innovation on the consumer side (this is what I mean by "ever-expanding"). Add on a potential Lutron settlement, and the development budget gets even smaller.

On the positive side, the recent $20MM infusion and the agreement to license the C4 OS to other companies are good things. As C4 doesn't seem to have the resources to do its own video playback, for example, it seems like a better idea to get the video companies to develop more of these.

So as I said at the beginning, maybe I'll see the 1.6 release features and say "nevermind". I hope I do. But its a competitive market out there, its changing quickly, and I worry that C4 is too busy perfecting its original release than bringing the 2008-2009 innovations to market.

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Yes, we've spent time adding new products to our line and replacing old products, and features do take time to develop. That said, Control4 has typically had 2 releases a year, and we'll likely have 2 again this year. What throws people off is that they're usually centered around CEDIA and CES, not an equal 6 months apart...

I'll go ahead and do something I typically don't do... There are a few 1.6 features that have been publically discussed that illustrate my point:

* Rhapsody Integration. The Rhapsody integration is very nice and works very well on all UI devices (including the system remote and 10-button LCD keypad), and that level of integration takes time to get right. It includes audio zone re-work that makes adding additional zones to what's playing and controlling volume for all zones much nicer.

* The Timer Agent: The Timer Agent lets you make user-level timers that perform like system timers, which work much better than the existing delay functionality.

* DriverWorks SDK: The DriverWorks SDK opens the door to dealers creating sophisticated 2-way IP and Serial drivers in a way that just didn't exist previously.

There's more functionality than those few items that has not been pubically announced (including my personal favorite feature!).

It's definitely a lot of new functionality to put into a single release.

I won't comment on Control4's strategic direction, but while I understand your concerns, I don't share them.

RyanE

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I agree with Waynechi on this one. Control 4 seems really slow with updates, operating a lot more like a traditional CE company, rather than a smart, VC-backed, forward thinking company. Further, I see so many of you talking about how you wish someone would write a patch or code or something for this product - iPod being the latest on the wishlist.

Further, while the CE market has always been traditionally slower than the PC, the gap appears to be growing, and we know that many PC makers are getting into the home automation market too. Admittedly their success is limited for now, but I really feel that they are poised to make more of a dent than they have in the past. Also, while it is not surprising that the the big web companies (Google, Yahoo, Facebook) and PC/Software companies (MS, Apple) all appear to be embracing open source, even the traditionally staid telco companies are embracing a more open platform (Sprint and T-Mobile with Android; Verizon with a broader open platform).

I guess what I'd like to see is C4 open their code up more to developers. Even the iron-fisted steve jobs and the notoriously closed off Gates/Ballmer sees the value of not just releasing an SDK but promoting it aggressively and creating a real ecosystem around it. Frankly, it would be interesting to see what cool refinements or even brand new ideas developers outside of the C4 world would bring to it if given the chance and incented to do so. IMHO, the technology and software world is moving way too quickly for even the most funded and engineer-rich companies to keep pace - to compete you either need to have a lot of dough (that doesn't ensure protection against obsolence either) or be open source and aggressive about attracting outside talent to move the product along. This is not the time to be closed, and coupling that with being slow with updates is the wrong approach.

Also, this forum has too many folks who seem to take it as a personal slight when someone raises a concern or criticizes something about C4. Obviously, we all like the product and 99% of us have chosen it. So, lets have a real discussion about it and be thick-skinned enough to not jump on folks for suggestions or thoughts of ways to improve the product.

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The typical life cycle of a technology company is that it comes out with great new products, and then makes a couple of more releases that are also impressive. But then they build up an installed base and maintenance of software/hardware and bug fixes starts to consume resources that used to be able to be devoted to new feature development.

Eventually the company ends up splitting their engineers into new product and maintenance teams, to avoid everyone ending up getting sucked into maintenance. Since you can't afford to have buggy products and RMAs, maintenance tasks end up getting the priority. So inevitably new development slows.

I don't know enough about C4's status or roadmap, or where it is in its lifecylce as a company, but hopefully some of the new funding will help bolster the new development resources so that innovation can continue at a competitive pace. But C4's priority has to be improving the kernel of Composer, and make it a great operating platform, and more easily extensible by both C4 engineers as well as programmers in the field, whether they be dealers or sophisticated end users.

But I do agree that anything C4 can do to harness the energy and creativity of its user base would be great. In the olden days, IBM used to have "field developed" application software that customers would create, and that enabled IBM to focus on core functionality. They would then adopt the best of that application software and bring into the core offerings. But again, I'm not close enough to the real C4 situation to know if or how such a cooperative effort might be operationalized. But partnering opportunities like that with Card Access are clearly good steps.

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  • 3 weeks later...

So just to get back to the original thread, here are two recent iPhone remote apps for other platforms.

First, another Crestron app (from http://www.cepro.com/article/new_iphone_interface_for_crestron_can_be_configured_online/#When:16:33:00Z):

ilovecontrol_300px.jpg

In the article, it mentions:

"iLoveControl joins a growing list of home control manufacturers with iPhone interfaces, including (HAI, Savant), multiroom audio (SpeakerCraft), media servers (Sooloos), and so much more".

Next, a pretty nice-looking iPhone interface for Tivo (from http://gizmodo.com/5020851/tivoremote-app-updated-with-slick-gui-and-handy-features)

tivoremoteupdate.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

Nothing on the app store yet. Also, the article said:

"By downloading an application developed by Control UI to the iPhone or iPod Touch and adding software to the Control4 system.."

I wonder what "adding software to the Control4 system" means? Also, I hope this app can connect using 4sight so you could use it outside of your home network - that would be pretty slick!!! Either way, this is GREAT news....

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Ok more info here:

iphoneapps2.jpg

"Control4's app (above) is the least impressive—the first version will only work in your home on the same Wi-Fi network as your system, which is puzzling. And it'll cost you a "license" that will likely be "over $100 and less than $500," to make up for lost touchscreen remote revenue."

http://gizmodo.com/5045658/iphone-the-home-automation-remote-killer

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I'd love to build something similar to this, but with a completely different user interface. Ryan, does Control4 have a _developer_ program that's different than the dealer program that would get me access to the information I need to build a similar application?

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Ok more info here:

"Control4's app (above) is the least impressive—the first version will only work in your home on the same Wi-Fi network as your system, which is puzzling. And it'll cost you a "license" that will likely be "over $100 and less than $500," to make up for lost touchscreen remote revenue."

It BETTER not not be $100+ for that download!!! That will be total BS!!!

I have already spent over 25k alone wiht C4. I would HOPE they would pass this out to current users!!

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It BETTER not not be $100+ for that download!!! That will be total BS!!! I have already spent over 25k alone wiht C4. I would HOPE they would pass this out to current users!!

If a 3rd party is developing it, as Ryan stated, why is it "total BS"? A 3rd part developer has take the time, resources and man power to come up with a solution. They should be able to charge what ever the market will bear. If the market will bear $500.00 than so be it. If the market will bear $5.00 so be it. But to say "It BETTER not not be $100+ for that download" or "I would HOPE they would pass this out to current users" is ridiculous. Where does it say a 3rd party developer has to give a way a product they did the R&D, development, etc? Who cares how much you spent on your system. You could have spent $100K+ you still do not deserve a 3rd party app for less than market price or for that matter free.

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I totally agree with you GoGo... I might even be willing to shell out $500 for mine (as long as my wife doesn't find out). That said, if Crestron and other competitors are offering a cheaper option with more features, it would be shortsighted to gouge current users while deterring future customers who will see C4 systems as too expensive relative to competitors.

Also, although a 3rd party developer is marketing the system, I suspect that C4 is licensing its GUI to that developer and it is the cost of that license that will determine 90% of the price of the app.

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. . . . That said, if Crestron and other competitors are offering a cheaper option with more features, it would be shortsighted to gouge current users while deterring future customers who will see C4 systems as too expensive relative to competitors.

Currently there are 2 iPhone apps made for Crestron. One is by a company called Command Fusio, www.commandfusion.com. They are a third party company that also makes iPhone control aps for AMX and other control systems. The other is Crestron. Crestron released a iPhone app for free. Now Command Fusion was and still is charging for their app even though we can now download a iPhone app for free from Crestron. As a dealer I now have a choice Free or pay $200. What this creates is competition. In order for command fusion to still charge they will have to create a better product more features, options, etc which in turn benefits us, the dealer, and our end user.

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Exactly. And over a longer timeframe there is competition *across* platforms. While its true that you can't easily compare a single component of Crestron, Control4, and any other system on an apples-to-apples basis, one thing that is going to be really easy to compare is the iPhone app. Everyone is going to be offering one and any prospective buyer comparing systems will be comparing that feature early on. I can easily envision a group of semi-informed buyers out there looking at a $500 C4 application and a near-free Crestron application and concluding that either C4 is more expensive or that C4 systems will have a lot more hidden costs / nickel-and-dime-ing than Crestron. Perception to some extent is reality, so if I were doing component pricing strategy for C4 I would be trying really hard to get a competitively priced iPhone application out there.

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Don't get me wrong, but I personally don't think arguing about the hypothetical price of a non-available application is terribly productive.

Wait until it's available, you know the pricing, and then we can have a discussion.

We are showing it so you know what's coming up, even if missing some details.

RyanE

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GoGo - we dropped the price to $99 on first news of the Crestron freebie. Crestron's solution also wont be available til end of year (at the earliest). We are adding a HEAP of new features in the coming couple of weeks, so keep an eye out.

Anyone interested in helping develop Control4 support into CommandFusion, drop us a line on the Google Group - groups.google.com/group/commandfusion

$99 per device, including ability to control via 3G. Free if you only need a single portrait and single landscape page.

Anyone who helps out with Control4 development will also get a few free device registrations to use as they wish.

We are now more determined than ever to create a great home automation iPhone app, so come join in the fun!

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GoGo - we dropped the price to $99 on first news of the Crestron freebie. Crestron's solution also wont be available til end of year (at the earliest). We are adding a HEAP of new features in the coming couple of weeks, so keep an eye out.

Anyone interested in helping develop Control4 support into CommandFusion, drop us a line on the Google Group - groups.google.com/group/commandfusion

$99 per device, including ability to control via 3G. Free if you only need a single portrait and single landscape page.

Anyone who helps out with Control4 development will also get a few free device registrations to use as they wish.

We are now more determined than ever to create a great home automation iPhone app, so come join in the fun!

WOOT!! Thanks Fusion!! That is more like it! $500 was freaking me out!

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Anyone who helps out with Control4 development will also get a few free device registrations to use as they wish.

We are now more determined than ever to create a great home automation iPhone app, so come join in the fun!

Any chances you guys will look at other major (much more major that is too, I'll point out) like the Windows Mobile 6 platform?

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