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Fireplace wiring question


msgreenf

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I have a gas fireplace that goes to a low voltage switch to act as a relay to turn it on. I am going to put a wireless relay in but I would like to be able to either control it with the physical switch or electronically from C4.

How can I wire it like that?

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Is the low voltage switch 24 volts? If so, why not use a Control4 thermostat in place of the switch, and put a $10 24v fan relay in between the switch and the fireplace?

When thermostat calls for heat, it sends power to close the relay contact and fire up the stove. Seems like it should work. 

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Is the low voltage switch 24 volts? If so, why not use a Control4 thermostat in place of the switch, and put a $10 24v fan relay in between the switch and the fireplace?

When thermostat calls for heat, it sends power to close the relay contact and fire up the stove. Seems like it should work. 

I don't want a thermostat. I just want to be able to control w my phone or with switch

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Being able to use both is a little tricky - wiring isn't a problem as such, the problem is keeping c4 in synch.

Best and easiest way? wire the 'old' wall switch into a sensor, program to toggle when sensor closes. Downside is that you lose 'direct' control/override control.

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Being able to use both is a little tricky - wiring isn't a problem as such, the problem is keeping c4 in synch.

Best and easiest way? wire the 'old' wall switch into a sensor, program to toggle when sensor closes. Downside is that you lose 'direct' control/override control.

Then you run into the issue of the switch being out of sync with the fireplace. Best solution is replacing the switch with a keypad.

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4 hours ago, funnyfarm299 said:

Then you run into the issue of the switch being out of sync with the fireplace. Best solution is replacing the switch with a keypad.

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No, that's the whole point of wiring it into a SENSOR, not the fireplace. Switch no longer controls the fireplace direct, it just triggers a sensor int he system, the SYSTEM triggers the fireplace.

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4 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

?

Sigh.

Solution is there. Ideally you'd put in a keypad, but the switch to sensor thing is an alternative.....using an Axxess relay/contact extender you'd have both the contact and the sensor in one...

thats what I plan to buy.  So I could use the sensor side of the axxess to wire to the existing switch and the relay to wire to the fireplace?

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22 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

?

Sigh.

Solution is there. Ideally you'd put in a keypad, but the switch to sensor thing is an alternative.....using an Axxess relay/contact extender you'd have both the contact and the sensor in one...

Y'all know I'm slow with stuff.  Sometimes I need someone to spell it all out for me!

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No, that's the whole point of wiring it into a SENSOR, not the fireplace. Switch no longer controls the fireplace direct, it just triggers a sensor int he system, the SYSTEM triggers the fireplace.

So what happens when you turn the fireplace on with a touchscreen? There's nothing physically moving that switch into the correct position.

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55 minutes ago, funnyfarm299 said:

So what happens when you turn the fireplace on with a touchscreen? There's nothing physically moving that switch into the correct position.

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What 'correct' position? Switch becomes a toggle for a sensor ONLY - it does NOT control the fireplace directly at all. Fireplace is controller via the system relay ONLY.

WHEN sensor changes - toggle fireplace.

 

Trying to grasp where this doesn't make sense

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What 'correct' position? Switch becomes a toggle for a sensor ONLY - it does NOT control the fireplace directly at all. Fireplace is controller via the system relay ONLY.

WHEN sensor changes - toggle fireplace.

 

Trying to grasp where this doesn't make sense

A switch is supposed to reflect the status of the device is connected to. For example, when I press the top half of a decora switch, it moves in and I then expect the device is on. Same goes for when I press the bottom half of it.

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20 hours ago, alanchow said:

Why not just use a 110v coil relay on a fireplace switch or wall switch to trigger the low voltage?

I still think my solution works the best.  Physical switch which can be used to turn on/off the fireplace and be controlled by Control4.  If director drops offline it will still work.

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33 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

I'm curious what you mean though - a 110v activated relay on a C4 switch? That would certainly work - assuming there is 110v at the current switch

That's exactly what he means. It's basically reproducing the old fireplace switches.

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1 minute ago, alanchow said:

yep.. extremely simple solution which will work well for manual control and control by c4.

Just one problem - the same problem the old fireplace switches had.

It may depend on the location, but 99% of fireplace switches here are NOT wired with 110v anywhere near - electricians simply don't do it, and inspectors will refuse to pass it. I've seen it happen more than once - which is why I think I have a grand total of 1 fireplace switch in operations (ok, maybe it's 2 or 3 but you get the picture).

 

While I like the principal, it wouldn't be workable here - though it may be an option for OP or subsequent readers.

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3 hours ago, funnyfarm299 said:

A switch is supposed to reflect the status of the device is connected to. For example, when I press the top half of a decora switch, it moves in and I then expect the device is on. Same goes for when I press the bottom half of it.

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Yeah....nah. This is a cute thought until you see your first 3(+)-way switch setup. Nothing dictates this as a must.

Please understand that I'm suggesting an easy way of using what is there - ideally there wouldn't even be a switch to replace because you prewired it from the start with a keypad and an override switch et al.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have read this post and a couple of others carefully on this topic. But I am still unsure of the best way to proceed in my case.

We are in the process of converting an old wood burning fireplace into a gas fireplace. That fireplace happens to be right behind my AV cabinet where I have my Control4 HC800 (and bunch of other things). 

Could I run a wire from the fireplace valve to the HC800 or IO extender? If so, what do I connect to what?

Is there a valve (brand, type, name, ...) that is recommended for that? I have been looking at Real Fyre ones such as APK-17 (or 11 or 15)? Would they work?

Can Control4 control more than on/off, such as height of flame or would this need to be done from fireplace remote control or knob?

Is there any benefit to install a Control4 fireplace switch if I can run the wire back to Control4 controller and have one key of my keypad by the fireplace dedicated to on/off the fireplace? I would prefer to avoid it to avoid additional costs, running more wires and additional switch on the wall but want to make sure I understand trade-offs if any.

What I have in mind right now is a valve with a dedicated remote control (not used most of the time), connected via physical wire to HC800 and controlled by Control4 remote or keypad. Let me know if I miss anything and recommendations on valve.

Thanks a lot.

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If it's easy to run, just do the controller run. Would simple go to a relay connection, NO and COM.

As for added control - generally no, it's on/off.

 

ANY fireplace/valve that can be controlled using a simple switch (ie suggests to wire a low voltage wire to a normal wall switch (not a special switch by the manufacturer) can be controlled no problem by C4

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I actually had a similar issue over here, and I ended up just buying one of the old C4 fireplace switches from eBay.  They come up there often enough and usually at a reasonable enough price, that it was worth it.  My gas fireplace is installed inside a stone chimney, so changing the wiring to run wires to a controller (to use the built-in relay) wasn't an option.  My particular fireplace has two 110 AC outlets in an insulated cabinet underneath.  For whatever insane reason, the installer wired the 110 to the wall switch to control the fireplace FAN and not the fireplace itself, which was controlled via an RF remote.  So I wired the fireplace switch in place in the insulated cabinet underneath where it's hidden, and re-wired a C4 switch into the wall.  I programmed the switch so that the top button toggles the fan on/off and the bottom button toggles the fireplace on/off.  LED states remain consistent with the "real world", I have physical control of the state via the switch, and I can control the whole thing via C4 remotes or the iPhone app, or via programing, to kick in when my Nest turns the furnace on.  I'm REALLY happy with that setup.

The only real alternative I had come up with was buying another HC250 (the only controller small enough to fit underneath the fireplace) and wiring it up in there using the relays and connected with power line ethernet.

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On February 8, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Cyknight said:

Yeah....nah. This is a cute thought until you see your first 3(+)-way switch setup. Nothing dictates this as a must.

This is true... but I personally deplore physical 3 way switch setups.  Part of the reason I've been converting my entire house over to C4 switches in the first place is because the switches maintain their state across multiple locations.  It's definitely a "1st world problem", but the whole family is happier with it that way.

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