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Control4 audio paths through controller


jfh

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I have wondered about this for a while and a comment in the EA5 review thread peaked my interest.

With C4 now providing more native support for audio sources, I would like to look at using the controller for more audio streams and reduce/remove Sonos Connects.  However there are three issues I don't understand well enough:

 

Here is my config - I have an HC-800 with one RCA out going to a C4 amp/matrix (feeds 8 zones) and HDMI going to a video matrix (which supplies audio to three distributed receivers).

1) Can an HC-800 (or an EA5) provide more than two concurrent streams?  My dealer says I can use any combination of outputs, but only two can ever be active at the same time.

2) If multiple rooms select the same source (say C4 Pandora), how does the system figure out if there should be two different streams or the same stream played in both rooms?   

3) If the answer to #1 is more than 2, can I use a D/A converter and feed the optical out to an RCA in on the audio matrix?

4) I have an audio source (C4 radio / XM multi tuner) that is fed into the C4 amp/matrix that I want to distribute to the rooms that have the receivers.  Can I feed an RCA output to something that I can feed to an HDMI input on the HDMI matrix?

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1) Yes, the controller sure can - some of the streaming services however limit to 'x' amount of streams per account (but multiple accounts are supported)

2) You don't select 'service' as a source - you select a channel/playlist/etc as the source - hence, it will 'know'

3) it's digital coax, but yes, hdmi audio extractor on the HDMI would work too.

4) Yes, you can feed the source into any controller, and from there, any controller (not just the one it's plugged into) can output it over ANY output type.

 

Understand two things:

-1 Once you start using external DAC for coax/hdmi - you MAY get some pathing oddities - you may not at all either, it will depend on your setup.

-2 When you feed a source into a controller - that 'stream' WILL be delayed, so for the tuner with XM for example, you'll want to feed ALL outputs into a controller, use multiple controller outputs to feed the matrix. That way, you prevent one stream from getting ahead of the other.

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1 hour ago, Cyknight said:

3) it's digital coax, but yes, hdmi audio extractor on the HDMI would work too.

Wouldn't using the digital coax open up one more path out of the HC800?

Quote

-2 When you feed a source into a controller - that 'stream' WILL be delayed, so for the tuner with XM for example, you'll want to feed ALL outputs into a controller, use multiple controller outputs to feed the matrix. That way, you prevent one stream from getting ahead of the other.

Very true. I have had to digitize Sonos before to prevent this, but that opens up an entirely new can of worms.

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1 hour ago, Cyknight said:

 

4) Yes, you can feed the source into any controller, and from there, any controller (not just the one it's plugged into) can output it over ANY output type.

 

Understand 

-2 When you feed a source into a controller - that 'stream' WILL be delayed, so for the tuner with XM for example, you'll want to feed ALL outputs into a controller, use multiple controller outputs to feed the matrix. That way, you prevent one stream from getting ahead of the other.

 

The LR has an HC-250 and a receiver and the receiver has a leg from the HDMI matrix. The C4 tuner feeds the C4 amp/matrix. There is no physical cable from the C4 audio matrix to the LR receiver.  My goal is to be able to play the C4 tuner in the living room.

 

 In #4, are you saying that I can have the tuner output that is fed into C4 amp/matrix somehow sent to an HC-250 that is connected to my living room receiver?   If so, it sounds like that can be done with connections and I wouldn't need any additional hardware or have to use the HDMI matrix just to distribute audio.

 

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2 hours ago, funnyfarm299 said:

Wouldn't using the digital coax open up one more path out of the HC800?

Very true. I have had to digitize Sonos before to prevent this, but that opens up an entirely new can of worms.

It can work well is some instances - especially when using all newer controllers (hc250 and 800 are included in this) as the delay can be set so minimal that it's otherwise unnoticeable (ie your play/pause and current media feedback is delayed).

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2 hours ago, funnyfarm299 said:

Wouldn't using the digital coax open up one more path out of the HC800?

Yeah that was a rather garbled sentence - I meant to say it wasn't optical but digital coax and that it would work - and in addition you can use an HDMI audio extractor as well to add yet another output.

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2 hours ago, jfh said:

 

The LR has an HC-250 and a receiver and the receiver has a leg from the HDMI matrix. The C4 tuner feeds the C4 amp/matrix. There is no physical cable from the C4 audio matrix to the LR receiver.  My goal is to be able to play the C4 tuner in the living room.

 

 In #4, are you saying that I can have the tuner output that is fed into C4 amp/matrix somehow sent to an HC-250 that is connected to my living room receiver?   If so, it sounds like that can be done with connections and I wouldn't need any additional hardware or have to use the HDMI matrix just to distribute audio.

 

Hmm let me try to make this clearer.

WHEN you feed a source into any controller (NOT a C4 matrix or amplifier) in a system, that source becomes an available 'stream' from ANY controller's physical outputs.

When you do so, that source is delayed however. So if you were to just take, for example, in a dual tuner, one out to an amplifier, and feed one into a controller - the two outputs, once they come out of their respective speakers will not be synced. In a simple version, the receiver being fed hDMI direct from a controller is behind what's coming from the amplifier. Worse, assuming controllers are being conected to the matrix as well, there may be instances where two streams from the amplifier are delayed.

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Simple version - if there is an HC800 at the tuner, you can feed the tuner into the HC800 and listen to it via the HC250 feeding the receiver.

Or - if you feed teh hc800 an output from the tuner, and the HC800 is in the HDM matrix, that would feed the receiver as well.

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6 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Simple version - if there is an HC800 at the tuner, you can feed the tuner into the HC800 and listen to it via the HC250 feeding the receiver.

Thanks.  I think this is the key and may make the most sense for me.  I just have to see what's using the 800 input now.

 

if I go the other route and feed a tuner output to HDMI, any recommendations for the necessary analog to digital converter?

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1 minute ago, jfh said:

Thanks.  I think this is the key and may make the most sense for me.  I just have to see what's using the 800 input now.

 

if I go the other route and feed a tuner output to HDMI, any recommendations for the necessary analog to digital converter?

That's not a route I suggested - I only meant you can extract an extra stereo audio feed from a controller from the HDMI, not anything the other way around.

While I imagine the opposite way around may work (ie any component and stereo to HDMI converter) I haven't tried. I can't imagine a specific issue system side though.

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