Newest New guy EVER. Building home, where to start?

[arden.ballard]

Hi Folks! I'm new here; I stumbled across the forum while researching HA and figured this would be a good place to start for info. 

A friend of mine owns an AV store and put the C4 bug in my ear, and after a little research, I figure I'd like to go with Control4 as my basis for my new home automation

That's about as far as I've gotten... 

I guess that it's the vast variety of utilities that has me a little confused/overwhelmed and wondering what's best for me and the family. It's like staring at the big elephant I'm supposed to eat with my tiny fork... It's a lot to chew.

We're building but we have a LOT of time (breaking ground in summer of 17. We're currently in the plan design phase). 3k sq ft for my wife and two kids (one now, one later)

I guess I'm looking for tips and pointers as to where I should start. I'm sure there are posts on here that would help me along? 

 

Thanks in advance for tips! I'm intrigued about all the possibilities!

[SMHarman]

Your AV friend will.be a guide. But like your time, his time is not free. His staff will be working at 100% salary.

In planning you need to think about room by room what you want. You and your wife should visit the showroom to get ideas.

In planning, those ideas can often result in cost shifting in your design and build. Panelled lighting should speed the rough in for the electrical contractor, as should dmx lighting. Also it may need less switches but they may cost more.

Also in design you can consider relevant security, hvac, pool, av etc systems and their ease of integration.

Another item will be working with the architect and av team on lv cable plans and reverse ceiling plans for lighting hvac and speaker placement.

Good luck.

[Joshua Pressnell]

Best generic recommendation I can make is to over-wire everything.  I've owned several houses, and I've often wished folks would have planned ahead for future needs.  Put in phone, network, and coax in every room.  Overshoot the standards, if you can afford it (use high rated shielded cables, even if they cost more).  Get the contractors to wire with conduit so you can easily snake new wires later if you need to.  

It's always good to plan as much up-front as possible, but you never know what you'll think of after the fact, so planning on some future-flexibitly is worth it, in my book.

[thegreatheed]

Wire is cheap. Pull multiple wires to each location. There's never a reason to pull 1 wire to a box, pull 2-3.

 

The good news is that Control4 is almost 100% retrofit-capable. Your plans can be flexible, but you have the luxury to pull wire, so pull wire.

[Joshua Pressnell]

3 minutes ago, thegreatheed said:

Wire is cheap. Pull multiple wires to each location. There's never a reason to pull 1 wire to a box, pull 2-3.

 

The good news is that Control4 is almost 100% retrofit-capable. Your plans can be flexible, but you have the luxury to pull wire, so pull wire.

Agree here.  But also would like to have solid structure in place to pull new wire.  Back when my house was built, we didn't have Cat5 standards yet, and 3 phone line wires wouldn't help me at all.  Ok, so we ran 3 ethernet lines everywhere, but now supporting GB ethernet (or TB ethernet in the future, or consumer fiber optic lines) requires new cables that didn't exist when shielded Cat5 was the best we could do.  While the walls are open, it's always easier to work out ways to deal with future needs after the walls are closed. 

I suppose you could argue in the case above, that I could just use one of those 3 phone lines as a "string" and yank it to run a couple of new cable lines... but I've run into headaches pulling wires with that approach.  Things get jammed up in walls, something goes wrong, and then you're stuck.

[thegreatheed]

Oh yeah. We've wired homes with conduits to each room too. That's vastly more expensive, though.

1 wire to each room = cheaping out.

Multiple wires to each room = barely more money, covers a LOT more bases.

conduit to each room = a lot more money and is future proof

[arden.ballard]

10 minutes ago, thegreatheed said:

Oh yeah. We've wired homes with conduits to each room too. That's vastly more expensive, though.

1 wire to each room = cheaping out.

Multiple wires to each room = barely more money, covers a LOT more bases.

conduit to each room = a lot more money and is future proof

Thanks for this. Over-wiring has definitely been a part of my budget since we decided to build, and I like the idea of conduit; we don't want to move from this house. I've always been a fan of spending the money behind the walls anyway. 

[Gnarlynickb]

Arden, I built my new home this year and had Control4 installed. I am very happy with some things, lukewarm about others, and then there are several Smart Home things I have, many more available and/or arriving constantly, that are better off not being integrated into Control4 right away. For instance, my blinds. For the work it took the dealer guys to integrate my Hunter-Douglas blinds into Control4, my life is simplified very little, and I face recurring expenses any time I change or replace a blind because the system is all locked down in Control4 and I don't have access to simple tools to correct issues like registering/renaming blinds without paying a dealer $80-$100/hour to do it for me. Do you live in North Dakota by any chance? I'd welcome you to come to my home to see how things work. Whereever you are, I'd say the best thing you could do for yourself at this point is find someone else with a family and budget similar to yours, and go to their home and check out their system. Hard part will be finding out who this person is, you might have to extend or stretch your circle of contacts to find this person, unless your dealer will connect you, but it will be SO worth it in setting your own expectations and making sure this is right for you. I think most of us, even if you were a stranger but came through a trusted connection, would be enthusiastic about discussing pros and cons.

[Gnarlynickb]

Also, a lot of this overwiring advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Yes, audio connections will likely be better hardwired for a long time. And ethernet connections for the important screens in your home that might need 4K streaming in the near future. But the ubiquity of wireless networking has let me sleep easily at night without having dedicated conduit to every room in the house.

[Gnarlynickb]

Also, there are a LOT of great security options available right now, which are as good as a monitoring service, that you can implement that won't require you to pay any monthly monitoring fee. I already have buyer's remorse over my $4000 security system that is worthless without the $400 annual monitoring fee. AND then there's the CONTROL4 $100-$120 annual fee just to be able to use the system when you aren't on your home network (called 4SIGHT), talk about farcical. There's a lot to put up with using Control4 that comes from them having their users by the gonads once they get you to buy the system, things you wouldn't expect if you've already been using Smart Home technology from ANY of the many, many, many, many other companies in the space.

[arden.ballard]

12 minutes ago, Gnarlynickb said:

Arden, I built my new home this year and had Control4 installed. I am very happy with some things, lukewarm about others, and then there are several Smart Home things I have, many more available and/or arriving constantly, that are better off not being integrated into Control4 right away. For instance, my blinds. For the work it took the dealer guys to integrate my Hunter-Douglas blinds into Control4, my life is simplified very little, and I face recurring expenses any time I change or replace a blind because the system is all locked down in Control4 and I don't have access to simple tools to correct issues like registering/renaming blinds without paying a dealer $80-$100/hour to do it for me. Do you live in North Dakota by any chance? I'd welcome you to come to my home to see how things work. Whereever you are, I'd say the best thing you could do for yourself at this point is find someone else with a family and budget similar to yours, and go to their home and check out their system. Hard part will be finding out who this person is, you might have to extend or stretch your circle of contacts to find this person, unless your dealer will connect you, but it will be SO worth it in setting your own expectations and making sure this is right for you. I think most of us, even if you were a stranger but came through a trusted connection, would be enthusiastic about discussing pros and cons.

Not in ND, but I have a PA license there! I used to do some work there actually. I live in New Orleans, and I'm building about 45 minutes outside of the city. 

It seems that it'd be very easy to get carried away with automoation. I initially wanted my TV's/music and some lights set up, but now I'm thinking about home security, doors, garage setups, and combining all those things with these one-click features on an iPad built in to the walls... all easy enough to be able to teach my wife how to use it all.

I agree with wireless to an extent. My vision is to have everything in my home with an ethernet port to have the ability to be plugged in and using wifi/wap for cellular/tablets and the occasional laptop. That's what I'm accustomed to currently (it's a necessity with a terrible wifi signal). 

If I'm up in your area, I'm looking you up! 

[GT Slider]

Gnarlynickb, that sounds a bit critical, don't you think?  How many times to you change your blinds?  You're life is simplified very little?  Then why even have Control4?  You could just as easily pull those blinds up, get up and turn on the lights, etc. 

As for your overwiring advice 'needs to be taken with a grain of salt', who laid out your network?  You, or your dealer.  If it was the later, did you overwire and suddenly have all of this extra cable not being used?  Ardan.Ballard:  Take my advice and do the conduit, then you don't have to necessarily overwire all of your locations, but can easily be expanded in the future.  Gnarlynickb:  huge mistake if you think that you're going to as solid of a wireless network as you would with physical connections.  Never going to happen.  After reading between some of the lines, sounds like you didn't have a very good experience with your installation, which has nothing to do with Control4 as a whole. 

[arden.ballard]

8 minutes ago, Gnarlynickb said:

Also, there are a LOT of great security options available right now, which are as good as a monitoring service, that you can implement that won't require you to pay any monthly monitoring fee. I already have buyer's remorse over my $4000 security system that is worthless without the $400 annual monitoring fee. AND then there's the CONTROL4 $100-$120 annual fee just to be able to use the system when you aren't on your home network (called 4SIGHT), talk about farcical. There's a lot to put up with using Control4 that comes from them having their users by the gonads once they get you to buy the system, things you wouldn't expect if you've already been using Smart Home technology from ANY of the many, many, many, many other companies in the space.

That brings up a good point, too... I was in Costco last night and saw several home security systems in the 400-600 range that seems to integrate with anything and require no service fees. With all the options, it's hard to keep your focus. 

[Gnarlynickb]

You can get everything on a single tablet. it's integrating them into 1 single app (Control 4) that isn't the panacea you hope for.  My blinds came with their own app that worked perfectly and it was free.  Integrate into the C4 app?That'll be $500 and it still won't work as well as the app from the manufacturer,  and you'll have to pay the dealer more anytime they need to troubleshoot. 

 

Another piece of advice for you at this stage is where are you going to position the voice control microphones in each Area of the house.  each microphone device (amazon Echo, Google home) will need power but not ethernet, they're all wireless. 

[Gnarlynickb]

6 minutes ago, GT Slider said:

Gnarlynickb, that sounds a bit critical, don't you think?  How many times to you change your blinds?  You're life is simplified very little?  Then why even have Control4?  You could just as easily pull those blinds up, get up and turn on the lights, etc. 

As for your overwiring advice 'needs to be taken with a grain of salt', who laid out your network?  You, or your dealer.  If it was the later, did you overwire and suddenly have all of this extra cable not being used?  Ardan.Ballard:  Take my advice and do the conduit, then you don't have to necessarily overwire all of your locations, but can easily be expanded in the future.  Gnarlynickb:  huge mistake if you think that you're going to as solid of a wireless network as you would with physical connections.  Never going to happen.  After reading between some of the lines, sounds like you didn't have a very good experience with your installation, which has nothing to do with Control4 as a whole. 

Many of my blinds are in places I cannot reach,  so motorization only made sense

[thegreatheed]

6 minutes ago, arden.ballard said:

That brings up a good point, too... I was in Costco last night and saw several home security systems in the 400-600 range that seems to integrate with anything and require no service fees. With all the options, it's hard to keep your focus. 

 

They don't integrate with anything, not even close.

 

[GT Slider]

Gnarlynickb:  Why don't you self monitor through Control4 with alerts and push notifications and do the system yourself?  Then you wouldn't have to pay anybody.  There are services and devices that will do everything Control4 can do, all DIY stuff, with an app for EVERY single one.  Arden, try showing your wife how to go in and out of about a dozen different apps to manage your home.  I know it wouldn't fly with my wife.  And just so you know, the 4sight license that Gnarlynickb is referring to you is for a lot more than just arming and disarming your system.  Arden, I think you joined the right forum, but unfortunately are getting the wrong feedback from someone who was burned by their installer.  They definitely didn't fulfill the customer expectation with regards to a system like Control4, before Gnarlynickb committed himself.

[GT Slider]

Gnarlynickb, if you want more control, then why don't you get a license of ComposerHE (it includes a 4sight year license with it):

https://www.control4.com/documentation/System_User_Guide/Composer_HE.htm

Don't know if you've heard about this, but I think this would put a lot more of your system back in your own hands.

 

[arden.ballard]

5 minutes ago, thegreatheed said:

They don't integrate with anything, not even close.

 

I guess this would make sense #YouGetWhatYouPayFor

[thegreatheed]

Just now, arden.ballard said:

I guess this would make sense #YouGetWhatYouPayFor

And Control4 doesn't integrate with >ANYTHING< either, but it's something like 10,000 separate drivers for 3rd-party devices.

[arden.ballard]

5 minutes ago, GT Slider said:

Arden, try showing your wife how to go in and out of about a dozen different apps to manage your home.  I know it wouldn't fly with my wife. 

This would end Badly. Very Badly... 

[Gnarlynickb]

You're right, GT Slider, about my installation not meeting my expectations.

But after having my blinds integrated, I realize it doesn't matter if they were integrated or not, and my wife wouldn't even need to use a separate app, because with or without C4 she can just control them with a voice command without even pulling out her cell phone. Having used it, it is instantly clear that voice control is the now and future of the Smart Home, so it won't matter how many apps are on your tablet or cell phone.

[GT Slider]

Arden.Ballard, just one bit of caution when starting to look into things like Costco, etc.  Let's take a security camera package for example.  If you've recently noticed, the majority of electronics that you purchase will have a disclaimer that says you do not bring back to retailer, must contact the manufacturer.  Let's say a camera goes out (on a 4 camera package) and you call in, they may require that the whole package is sent back for replacement.  Who's going to remove all of the camera's that have already been mounted?  A TV, for example, is another one that has caused problems with Control4, but many other solutions that run on IR commands.  TV's, and some other specific electronics, that are sold through Costco's type retailers are made specifically for those markets.  That model will not be the same as what you might get at a Best Buy.  Just trying to give you a little more understanding so that you're fully aware of the details.

[Gnarlynickb]

6 minutes ago, GT Slider said:

Gnarlynickb, if you want more control, then why don't you get a license of ComposerHE (it includes a 4sight year license with it):

https://www.control4.com/documentation/System_User_Guide/Composer_HE.htm

Don't know if you've heard about this, but I think this would put a lot more of your system back in your own hands.

 

Thank for showing me this, it actually does look like I will enjoy this. What should I expect it to cost?

[GT Slider]

2 minutes ago, Gnarlynickb said:

Having used it, it is instantly clear that voice control is the now and future of the Smart Home, so it won't matter how many apps are on your tablet or cell phone.

You're exactly right, I think that voice will become a huge part of single integration.  However, Arden.Ballard mentioned that he has a kid (with another in the near future).  No offense, but a household, with kids, can be a pain in the ass, with everyone wanting to see lights ON, lights OFF, blinds UP, blinds DOWN.  It's TOO many voices playing with technology that it all seems chaotic.  Instead, pick up remote, or your phone and choose what you want to do.  Now, if it's just a nice, quiet couple then voice is great.  But man, throws kids (I've got 2, with another on the way) and it's utter chaos.