Newest New guy EVER. Building home, where to start?

[GT Slider]

Gnarlynickb:  It should only be about $149.  Nothing for a dealer to setup or install.  You will get a license key from the dealer and then you can download a learn to manage your environment to your hearts content.  I'm sorry that it was not the most pleasant experience for you, but I know that I've been through enough threads where some people (especially those that are DIY) have enough knowledge and foresight to do the install themselves and then just find one of the forum guys to integrate.  They seem to be very happy. 

[Joshua Pressnell]

Gotta agree with GT Slider here.  I think voice control is great for specific use cases, but I'll *never* be able to convince my wife and kids to use it.  

Also, keep in mind that some of our feedback depends on your level of technical savvy.  I'm an engineer.  I tinker and program stuff because I think it's fun.  I'm currently writing a Control4 <-> Apple HomeKit driver for no other reason than because I wanted to say "Hey Siri, open the van garage door" on the way home.  When something breaks, I fix it.  When something breaks and I'm not home, my wife calls me and demands I fix it, remotely if I have to.  

I have a VPN network setup and installed on my family's phones so we don't need 4Sight to connect.  Between my HomeKit driver (which also enables control from outside the home via Apple TV as hubs) and a IFTTT driver, I don't feel the need for 4Sight at all.  

But I'm a guy who will dig into a router's config files to optimize network speeds.  If you're not that guy... you need to find a guy like me (hopefully your dealer friend is a solid tech guy) and be willing to pay for his time.  I *love* my C4 system.  But I also self-heal a lot of my own problems (and the folks here will help out as best they can).  

The best we can do is share our own experiences with you, and caveat our opinions based on who we are and how we use stuff.

[Gnarlynickb]

I have 4 kids. Yes, there is some novelty at the beginning, but eventually people get used to working the system.

[Joshua Pressnell]

Oh.. and as regards the security system.  I highly recommend having a contractor properly wire security sensors around the house during the build.  Again, while the walls are off in new construction, it's easy, and you don't need to be a security expert to do it.  The hardware is available from a dozen inexpensive locations online.  Wired systems are less prone to tampering and can use detection loops to determine if something goes wrong.  Wired sensors also tend to be "hidden" better.  I have contact switches for all my doors that are cleanly and beautifully hidden in the door jams.  I have small contact sensors embedded in all the windows.  A Honeywell Vista or DSC panel is pretty inexpensive, and you can find UL listed places that do contract-free monitoring for $8-$10 a month if you don't feel comfortable self hosting.  The folks who owned my house before me let the security system die and never kept it maintained, so I did a full DIY retrofit of a 7,000 sq foot house on about a $600 budget.  Don't get sucked into the security company hype.  There are other options if you don't mind learning and using Google.

[GT Slider]

Joshua:  completely agree!  I put in my system myself with enough resources to complete the install and found any one of the online services for $10/month.  Most of them are the same as any mom and pop security monitoring and will just sell your services to a central station for monitoring.  Either way, you have piece of mind knowing that in the event of a real emergency I can actually use the 3 emergency buttons and get a response.

[Gnarlynickb]

15 minutes ago, GT Slider said:

Gnarlynickb:  It should only be about $149.  Nothing for a dealer to setup or install.  You will get a license key from the dealer and then you can download a learn to manage your environment to your hearts content.  I'm sorry that it was not the most pleasant experience for you, but I know that I've been through enough threads where some people (especially those that are DIY) have enough knowledge and foresight to do the install themselves and then just find one of the forum guys to integrate.  They seem to be very happy. 

Thanks for the advice. I think this will be a Christmas present to myself

Voice control: This technology is not close to mature yet. Even in its current raw form its potential is awesome. It is just going to get better and better, very quickly, to where it's natural enough to use that our wives will embrace it, (but hopefully not leave us for it).

 

[GT Slider]

LOL, agree.  I am definitely looking forward to all of the emerging technology that is coming our way.  As for your XMas gift, you'll love it, if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.  I'm more than happy to help.

[Gnarlynickb]

1 hour ago, arden.ballard said:

Thanks for this. Over-wiring has definitely been a part of my budget since we decided to build, and I like the idea of conduit; we don't want to move from this house. I've always been a fan of spending the money behind the walls anyway. 

Overwiring/conduit: I didn't overwire my home. I just figure anything that can't get from A to B over Cat or Coax will just have to go wirelessly. It's cheaper to reach this conclusion so it's the one I went with, but I've also been happy with it and don't think conduit would add anything in the foreseeable future. I realize conduit is for the UN-foreseeable future, but I'm having great success with wifi. We have 6 Smart TVs connected by wifi and they all get along fine, in addition to computers, cell phones, etc.

I do believe that all single-family homes need to have 2 wireless routers for good signal coverage, especially since this is fairly inexpensive to do and makes a world of difference for connection reliability and signal strength. Apartment/condo, maybe different story, but most homes 1500 sf+ (plus garage) need to plan for 2 wireless routers with a wired connection between the 2 (primary + access point) or expect to have cold spots. This has been true for the last 4 homes I've lived in (all multi-level homes), and all of my friends'.

[arden.ballard]

47 minutes ago, GT Slider said:

Arden.Ballard, just one bit of caution when starting to look into things like Costco, etc.  Let's take a security camera package for example.  If you've recently noticed, the majority of electronics that you purchase will have a disclaimer that says you do not bring back to retailer, must contact the manufacturer.  Let's say a camera goes out (on a 4 camera package) and you call in, they may require that the whole package is sent back for replacement.  Who's going to remove all of the camera's that have already been mounted?  A TV, for example, is another one that has caused problems with Control4, but many other solutions that run on IR commands.  TV's, and some other specific electronics, that are sold through Costco's type retailers are made specifically for those markets.  That model will not be the same as what you might get at a Best Buy.  Just trying to give you a little more understanding so that you're fully aware of the details.

It's easy to get pulled in to buying all my big electronics through costco bc of the warranties, cost, etc. But I def am weary about this. I equate it to the "black friday" electronics that are rushed out the door and have shown to not last as long, etc.

[GT Slider]

Perfect example!

[Gnarlynickb]

7 minutes ago, arden.ballard said:

It's easy to get pulled in to buying all my big electronics through costco bc of the warranties, cost, etc. But I def am weary about this. I equate it to the "black friday" electronics that are rushed out the door and have shown to not last as long, etc.

Google is doing a fantastic job with their Smart home devices in my experience. They are well built, their apps are pleasant to use, and they interface flawlessly on my home wifi network. I only own Chromecast, Chromecast Audio, and Nest thermostats, I bought them all directly from the manufacturer. I would expect the Nest Cam to work equally superbly. And, the apps to support their devices cost how much? Oh, $0.

I'm about to spend $150 on the Control4 HE app, it looks like. Hopefully I can still get the free year of 4Sight even though I just subscribed to it for the sole purpose of unlocking voice control through Alexa.

[arden.ballard]

1 hour ago, GT Slider said:

You're exactly right, I think that voice will become a huge part of single integration.  However, Arden.Ballard mentioned that he has a kid (with another in the near future).  No offense, but a household, with kids, can be a pain in the ass, with everyone wanting to see lights ON, lights OFF, blinds UP, blinds DOWN.  It's TOO many voices playing with technology that it all seems chaotic.  Instead, pick up remote, or your phone and choose what you want to do.  Now, if it's just a nice, quiet couple then voice is great.  But man, throws kids (I've got 2, with another on the way) and it's utter chaos.

Such a good point!! 

[arden.ballard]

1 hour ago, Joshua Pressnell said:

Gotta agree with GT Slider here.  I think voice control is great for specific use cases, but I'll *never* be able to convince my wife and kids to use it.  

Also, keep in mind that some of our feedback depends on your level of technical savvy.  I'm an engineer.  I tinker and program stuff because I think it's fun.  I'm currently writing a Control4 <-> Apple HomeKit driver for no other reason than because I wanted to say "Hey Siri, open the van garage door" on the way home.  When something breaks, I fix it.  When something breaks and I'm not home, my wife calls me and demands I fix it, remotely if I have to.  

I have a VPN network setup and installed on my family's phones so we don't need 4Sight to connect.  Between my HomeKit driver (which also enables control from outside the home via Apple TV as hubs) and a IFTTT driver, I don't feel the need for 4Sight at all.  

But I'm a guy who will dig into a router's config files to optimize network speeds.  If you're not that guy... you need to find a guy like me (hopefully your dealer friend is a solid tech guy) and be willing to pay for his time.  I *love* my C4 system.  But I also self-heal a lot of my own problems (and the folks here will help out as best they can).  

The best we can do is share our own experiences with you, and caveat our opinions based on who we are and how we use stuff.

@Joshua Pressnell I work in medicine but am a networking/tech fanboy and would likely go engineering if I had a time machine to do it over. With that said, I'm noticing my learning curve is quite steep when it comes to the components of a network, much less the manual configuration of said devices. I've been watching Linus Tech Tips on YouTube for some learning moments, but I feel like I'd break more than I'd fix. 

As much as I like my buddy and like to "do business with friends" as Jeffery Gittomer would say, I need to talk to other dealers too to make sure I'm getting good knowledge base on the back end. as much as I don't mind spending money, I stretch every dollar to the max and want efficiency as well. 

[SMHarman]

I only wish I had run a conduit to one TV location.

Even there I am unconvinced of the value. 50 ft from the rack to the TV, the current HDMI run works but I am not convinced 4k will happily exist on HDMI over that distance anyway.

There is spare cat5 and shielded 6 and coax along side for baluns when 4 k arrives there.

[eggzlot]

2 hours ago, Gnarlynickb said:

 

But after having my blinds integrated, I realize it doesn't matter if they were integrated or not, and my wife wouldn't even need to use a separate app, because with or without C4 she can just control them with a voice command without even pulling out her cell phone. Having used it, it is instantly clear that voice control is the now and future of the Smart Home, so it won't matter how many apps are on your tablet or cell phone.

If integrated properly you should rarely even use the app to open/close the blinds.  It should be automated in the truest sense of the word.  People get confused, they feel automation is having an app to control something vs manually doing it.  If blinds are programmed properly they should open/close on their own based on lighting conditions, usage of TVs in that room if applicable, different modes (party mode, privacy modes, etc).  And as mentioned, you do not need to pay a dealer to program your blinds.  If they are in your project (which does require a dealer) get Composer HE for $149 as a 1 time fee, and program it yourself.  If you need help, these forums are a TON of help.  Or look at remote dealers who charge a fraction of the price and can dial in remotely and program on your behalf.  You have options.

When I started with Control4 my goal was to have 1 app because I thought it was cool and the wife would like the 1 app mindset.  As we've learned about actual automation, its about making life easier and having things worth together in harmony.  And by things working together, I mean C4 hardware and non C4 hardware.  With various motion sensors I rarely turn on/off lights anymore.  My outdoor lights all work in unison based on various factors of daytime, if someone is (or is not) home, time of the year with holiday settings for decorative lights, etc.  When my housekeeper comes over, sonos music starts in various rooms, security system shuts off, lights go on, etc. and when she leaves, door locks, alarm goes on, sonos music goes off, etc.  That is automation, not trying to get everything into 1 app.  the 1 app mindset is only a piece of true automation.

To the original poster - the nice thing about C4 is it CAN be overwhelming with all the things you can automate, BUT you can do it via piecemeal.  If you have the controller and the proper wiring behind the walls, adding down the line is easy.  Get wiring out of the way, and if you want to do C4 lighting do that from the ground up.  The rest you can easily and most cost effectively add later on down the road.

[Gnarlynickb]

Just now, eggzlot said:

If integrated properly you should rarely even use the app to open/close the blinds.  It should be automated in the truest sense of the word.  People get confused, they feel automation is having an app to control something vs manually doing it.  If blinds are programmed properly they should open/close on their own based on lighting conditions, usage of TVs in that room if applicable, different modes (party mode, privacy modes, etc).  And as mentioned, you do not need to pay a dealer to program your blinds.  If they are in your project (which does require a dealer) get Composer HE for $149 as a 1 time fee, and program it yourself.  If you need help, these forums are a TON of help.  Or look at remote dealers who charge a fraction of the price and can dial in remotely and program on your behalf.  You have options.

When I started with Control4 my goal was to have 1 app because I thought it was cool and the wife would like the 1 app mindset.  As we've learned about actual automation, its about making life easier and having things worth together in harmony.  And by things working together, I mean C4 hardware and non C4 hardware.  With various motion sensors I rarely turn on/off lights anymore.  My outdoor lights all work in unison based on various factors of daytime, if someone is (or is not) home, time of the year with holiday settings for decorative lights, etc.  When my housekeeper comes over, sonos music starts in various rooms, security system shuts off, lights go on, etc. and when she leaves, door locks, alarm goes on, sonos music goes off, etc.  That is automation, not trying to get everything into 1 app.  the 1 app mindset is only a piece of true automation.

To the original poster - the nice thing about C4 is it CAN be overwhelming with all the things you can automate, BUT you can do it via piecemeal.  If you have the controller and the proper wiring behind the walls, adding down the line is easy.  Get wiring out of the way, and if you want to do C4 lighting do that from the ground up.  The rest you can easily and most cost effectively add later on down the road.

eggzlot, your system clearly is a thing of beauty.

The blinds are automated, the company's app does that nicely, but there is still the need to adjust them based on whether guests are over at an unexpected time and we want to enjoy/show off the view, or maybe it's cloudy out and so it's ok to have the blinds up when it would be too bright on a sunny day, also through the course of the year the amount of sun our home gets at different times of day can vary. So far apps allow for settings based on time of sunrise/sunset, maybe I just haven't delved into it, but I haven't seen one that is customizable based on season/length of day/coincidence of sunrise with breakfast time in the kitchen, etc.

I will see how much I can do with Composer HE, it looks like it will actually solve virtually all of my headaches.

[eggzlot]

There are weather drivers for free, you can get more advanced with home weather monitoring systems to even further tweak program settings based on sun/shade for blinds.  we did not do automated blinds yet, and I say yet as we plan to renovate two rooms in the spring and we'll do automated blinds in both.  So I cannot offer much in the way programming ideas.  But if you have a configurable keypad you can easily open/close blinds and using the single, double or triple tap have tons of options without going into the C4 app or the manufacture's app to control those blinds.

As an example, I am just about to start some weather programming of my own.  I have a small section of an outdoor heating element (like radiant floor heating) outside on my patio leading off to the the lawn and also a patch of the lawn heated.  this is so in the NJ snow/ice storms we can have a heated/cleared path to take the dog out to use the bathroom - yes a stupid luxury for us all.  But I am going to program the heating elements to turn on based on % humidity, % of precipitation and also temp below a certain point.  those 3 factors would lead me to suggest those stairs will be icy or will have snow.  You can do the same thing with your blinds.  so 90% of the time you never touch them.  If you want to show off the view, depending on how you have your hardware you can have a button on the wall to single, double or triple tap to open it up.

[Gnarlynickb]

20 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

There are weather drivers for free, you can get more advanced with home weather monitoring systems to even further tweak program settings based on sun/shade for blinds.  we did not do automated blinds yet, and I say yet as we plan to renovate two rooms in the spring and we'll do automated blinds in both.  So I cannot offer much in the way programming ideas.  But if you have a configurable keypad you can easily open/close blinds and using the single, double or triple tap have tons of options without going into the C4 app or the manufacture's app to control those blinds.

As an example, I am just about to start some weather programming of my own.  I have a small section of an outdoor heating element (like radiant floor heating) outside on my patio leading off to the the lawn and also a patch of the lawn heated.  this is so in the NJ snow/ice storms we can have a heated/cleared path to take the dog out to use the bathroom - yes a stupid luxury for us all.  But I am going to program the heating elements to turn on based on % humidity, % of precipitation and also temp below a certain point.  those 3 factors would lead me to suggest those stairs will be icy or will have snow.  You can do the same thing with your blinds.  so 90% of the time you never touch them.  If you want to show off the view, depending on how you have your hardware you can have a button on the wall to single, double or triple tap to open it up.

I have a few multi-button engravable control pads on the walls for the lights.  can i program these with composer HE? That might be nice.  we aren't keen on putting anything else on the walls for aesthetics. that's another strength of voice control, the microphone can be hidden. 

[RyanE]

I second the idea of getting hard-wired security wiring in before walls are closed.

'Walk-around' lighting at night is one of my favorite and most-used features, and not having to replace batteries in 30+ security-type sensors every few years is well worth it.

Motion sensors in every room, door/window sensors in every door/window.

I over-wired my house, and think it's worth it, but yeah, that was also pre-WiFi...

RyanE

 

[RyanE]

1 minute ago, Gnarlynickb said:

I have a few multi-button engravable control pads on the walls for the lights.  can i program these with composer HE? That might be nice.  we aren't keen on putting anything else on the walls for aesthetics. that's another strength of voice control, the microphone can be hidden. 

Yes.

ComposerHE lets you do everything a Control4 installer can do, with the following exceptions:

* You can't add/delete/rename devices in the project tree.

* You can't make/change connections between devices in the project (i.e. network IP addresses, control bindings, etc.)

* You can't make loops in programming (this is very rarely used in any case, even though I have Pro, I have no programming with loops).

Other than that, you can add programming, create lighting scenes, macros, etc. with ComposerHE.

RyanE

[FLA]

My biggest pre wire mistake was not to tell my dealer to use shielded wires and my dealers biggest pre wire mistake was not to give me the option for shielded wires.

[FLA]

9 hours ago, RyanE said:

Yes.

ComposerHE lets you do everything a Control4 installer can do, with the following exceptions:

* You can't add/delete/rename devices in the project tree.

* You can't make/change connections between devices in the project (i.e. network IP addresses, control bindings, etc.)

* You can't make loops in programming (this is very rarely used in any case, even though I have Pro, I have no programming with loops).

Other than that, you can add programming, create lighting scenes, macros, etc. with ComposerHE.

RyanE

Can you change the listing order of the sources in a certain room with the order showing up on an SR 250 ?

[South Africa C4 user]

9 hours ago, FLA said:

Can you change the listing order of the sources in a certain room with the order showing up on an SR 250 ?

Yes. From memory, it is done in the room itself under monitoring and choosing navigator 

[arden.ballard]

18 hours ago, Joshua Pressnell said:

 

[arden.ballard]

17 hours ago, RyanE said:

I second the idea of getting hard-wired security wiring in before walls are closed.

'Walk-around' lighting at night is one of my favorite and most-used features, and not having to replace batteries in 30+ security-type sensors every few years is well worth it.

Motion sensors in every room, door/window sensors in every door/window.

I over-wired my house, and think it's worth it, but yeah, that was also pre-WiFi...

RyanE

 

Thanks! The wire for me is a no-brainer. Even with a good wifi system, I think it'll be a little bit before we rely more on wireless than plugging stuff in.