Pioneer AV receivers dropping off Control4 network

[justme]

So a few weeks ago, I had a control4 dealer install a EA-5 controller and update to the latest OS. I was a bit surprised that he left in the existing HC-800 controller in the system to control IR blasters.   In any case after the EA-5 was installed, my pioneer VSX-90, and SC-95 fell off the network and could not be controlled via Control4.   I was able to update both receivers to the latest firmware and thought I had solved the problem since both receivers then appeared to function via control4 for a few hours.   However they again fell off the network.  I can get them to work again by a soft reset (unplugging receiver for 90 sec and then replugging), but this is only temporary as they again drop off after an hour or more.   I am wondering if this can be resolved by a service visit, or this represents some type of firmware/Control4 OS incompatibility that requires either firmware or OS update from Pioneer or Control4.  Also does it make sense to leave the HC-800 in the system?   After the EA-5 was installed, I have noticed no system performance improvement whatsoever.  

[GT Slider]

You could use the HC-800 as another Navigator if needed.  Do you have the Pioneer receiver app?  Use could use that to see if it can no longer control the receiver when they drop as well.  If they cannot be controlled through the Pioneer app as well, it would at least rule out an issue with Control4.  May narrow down the issue to settings on the receiver.   

[Elvis]

My SC-65 drops off the network routinely but not that often. I'd say once a week. Make sure you have it setup with a static IP address and DHCP reservation. I don't think this is a c4 issue, but an issue with Pioneer staying on the network.

[SMHarman]

Make sure the Netflix app on all devices on your network is up to date. This may be linked to Netflix traffic crashing the nic chip on those boxes.

[malelan]

I replaced mine due to a similar issue. Wasn't even aware others had it. Just got sick of it.

[vitali]

use RS232 control

[SMHarman]

This thread on Yamaha AVR problems.

http://www.c4forums.com/index.php?/topic/19929-yamaha-Firmware-help

[wappinghigh]

According to the good people at Control4, there are never any network issues, so why give end users the tools to try sort things out? Yep - network drivers work 100% 24/7, there is no need for IR back up... heck why even suggest it? It's absolute Heresy !

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wappinghigh]

And no.... It's not "justyou" this is a very common problem with network drivers in general. There are hundreds of different possible random reasons, yet somehow Control4 seems to think it's end users who have to bank roll the solutions, without giving them the basic tools to help sort them and viable alternatives like a combined IR network SR260 remote to help them out (whilst they try sort it...if they *ever* get sorted) . But heck. What do I know? I mean my new TV driver is just network only! There *is* no IR or serial alternative. I'm just a dumb arse punter who has to live in the real world I guess.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Elvis]

I wanted to update this thread. There is something going on. I'm looking into the Netflix issue, but I started tracking mine today and it dropped off the network sometimes in as little as 2 minutes. Other times it lasted hours. This is new (to me) behavior.

Airplay to the AppleTV is rock solid. So not sure I understand how a Netflix app is messing up a Pioneer AVR and not ATV.

[wappinghigh]

Re Neflix app.. Could this be what's screwing with my Sony TV??? How do I find out?

 

[SMHarman]

Re Neflix app.. Could this be what's screwing with my Sony TV??? How do I find out?

 

Whatever it is they fixed it.

[SMHarman]

I wanted to update this thread. There is something going on. I'm looking into the Netflix issue, but I started tracking mine today and it dropped off the network sometimes in as little as 2 minutes. Other times it lasted hours. This is new (to me) behavior.

Airplay to the AppleTV is rock solid. So not sure I understand how a Netflix app is messing up a Pioneer AVR and not ATV.

It's how the WiFi chip reacts to certain broadcast traffic. It's the specific WiFi chip.

[wappinghigh]

Just now, SMHarman said:

Whatever it is they fixed it.

Thanks for letting me know.. the quest continues

[turls]

I used to have issues with Pioneer AVRs dropping off my network fairly frequently, and lately it has become an issue again.  I worked through the Netflix thing so it likely isn't that, but power cycling gets them back for a while.  I have 4 different Pioneer AVRs on my network.

Its so bizarre that a Netflix upgrade messed things up before that now I would not be surprised if some other app update caused a similar issue. 

[SMHarman]

I wanted to update this thread. There is something going on. I'm looking into the Netflix issue, but I started tracking mine today and it dropped off the network sometimes in as little as 2 minutes. Other times it lasted hours. This is new (to me) behavior.

Airplay to the AppleTV is rock solid. So not sure I understand how a Netflix app is messing up a Pioneer AVR and not ATV.

Read the yamaha thread. The network chip and firmware on those AVR was reacting badly to certain IP packets and ultimately failing to respond to packets.

These packets were generated by the Netflix app.

If the pioneer uses the same chip for networking as the yamaha then the resultant crash could be the same.

[Elvis]

2 minutes ago, SMHarman said:

Read the yamaha thread. The network chip and firmware on those AVR was reacting badly to certain IP packets and ultimately failing to respond to packets.

These packets were generated by the Netflix app.

If the pioneer uses the same chip for networking as the yamaha then the resultant crash could be the same.

Okay, I'm reaching out to Pioneer to see what they say. That thread you linked to about Yamaha didn't address Netflix. I'll search for another thread.

[Cyknight]

The underlying probem I feel is that AVR manufacturers are trying to cram too much into a device these days. Just like 'smart tvs' are rather redundant in the face of cheap Rokus, FireTVs, AndroidTVs and AppleTVs, this goes more or less double for receivers.

Too many things that mess up how the receiver works in it's base form and intend. Too many variables, particularly on the networking side.

RS232 connection all the way.

[Elvis]

16 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

RS232 connection all the way.

Which controllers have RS232 besides the EA-5?

[SMHarman]

Which controllers have RS232 besides the EA-5?

EA1, 3, 5, HC800, HC250 for ones running current OS versions. All of them basically.

On many it shares an IR port, so plan accordingly.

[vstar]

both receivers you mentioned have RS-232 and control4 has native serial drivers for both, so as Cyknight stated RS-232 is the best route. I run all my pioneer and denon receivers via serial and everything is rock solid.

if you are out of ports and all your gear is centralized just add a IO extender.

https://www.control4.com/docs/product/io-extender/data-sheet/english/latest/io-extender-data-sheet-rev-a.pdf

Serial Ports (Male DB9 RS232) 4

IR Outputs 8

Contacts 8

Relays 8

[Elvis]

48 minutes ago, SMHarman said:

EA1, 3, 5, HC800, HC250 for ones running current OS versions. All of them basically.

On many it shares an IR port, so plan accordingly.

I was looking for a standard RS-232 connection. Thanks guys - this will help. 

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, Elvis said:

I was looking for a standard RS-232 connection. Thanks guys - this will help. 

Then EA5, HC800 and more than anything - I/O extender. Cheapest way still to add a lot of serial at a central location.

If local is needed, alternatives are pretty easily available these days with drivers (and products) avaible from Houselogix, and if memory serves Blackwire.

[turls]

I get it, the old serial vs. IP argument.  But its almost 2017, and it shouldn't be this difficult.

And besides, the IO Extender isn't a panacea.  Its another point of failure, and one in my network happens to be the least reliable piece of C4 equipment I own.  Never bad enough to write off or replace, but a PITA especially every other update or so.

[Cyknight]

21 minutes ago, turls said:

I get it, the old serial vs. IP argument.  But its almost 2017, and it shouldn't be this difficult.

And besides, the IO Extender isn't a panacea.  Its another point of failure, and one in my network happens to be the least reliable piece of C4 equipment I own.  Never bad enough to write off or replace, but a PITA especially every other update or so.

~Shrug~ yours may be an issue, it has been the most reliable gear overall for m in general.

And while I would love to use IP control, simple fact is that receiver manufacturers are incapable, or uncaring, to make a receivers network stable - be it for control or for it's own internal uses - Pioneer's app fails to connect, Yamaha crashes on Netflix, Onkyo network cards just fail, Denon the same, if less so. Marantz just stops responding until rebooted.

At some point - I pick my battle and go for something that gives me the exact same capabilities, but with basically 100% reliability. So it's been serial first for receivers for me for some time now.