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bkays

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bkays Enthusiast

bkays

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I'm currently in the process of building a house and will be installing C4. I've already pre-wired the crap out of it, much more than I needed per my integrator, but better safe than sorry. Anyway, I'm a software engineer and I'm pretty good with electronics, however I haven't dabbled into the hardware end in a while. At my previous home I didn't need much more than a mid tier best buy wireless router.

I've been doing a bunch of research, and I'm thinking of going with the Ubiquity router (ER3-Lite), their switch (either the unifi or edge w/ POE - haven't decided yet), and their Unify AC AP Pro. I'm not quite sure how many APs I'll need as this is my first time using them, but I've wired each floor for one.  Are there any do's and don'ts when it comes to network hardware and C4? I know its recommended to use an unmanaged switch,  but from what I read that saves the integrator time to set everything up and not all integrators have enough experience with managed switches to know what to do. That shouldn't be a problem for me, although I have no problem using an unmanaged switch.

Is there any reason to stay away from the Ubiquity stuff for C4, or does anyone have a better recommendation?

Also I read to try to keep it to one switch. Unfortunately with the amount of POE devices I have planned I'm not sure if I can get a switch with enough POE power to handle it. I have planned to get a second small switch mostly to use for POE stuff. Is there a reason it's recommended to not use more than one switch as long as I keep the controllers plugged into the main one?

 

Thanks!

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thecodeman Proficient

thecodeman

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6 hours ago, bkays said:

I'm currently in the process of building a house and will be installing C4. I've already pre-wired the crap out of it, much more than I needed per my integrator, but better safe than sorry. Anyway, I'm a software engineer and I'm pretty good with electronics, however I haven't dabbled into the hardware end in a while. At my previous home I didn't need much more than a mid tier best buy wireless router.

I've been doing a bunch of research, and I'm thinking of going with the Ubiquity router (ER3-Lite), their switch (either the unifi or edge w/ POE - haven't decided yet), and their Unify AC AP Pro. I'm not quite sure how many APs I'll need as this is my first time using them, but I've wired each floor for one.  Are there any do's and don'ts when it comes to network hardware and C4? I know its recommended to use an unmanaged switch,  but from what I read that saves the integrator time to set everything up and not all integrators have enough experience with managed switches to know what to do. That shouldn't be a problem for me, although I have no problem using an unmanaged switch.

Is there any reason to stay away from the Ubiquity stuff for C4, or does anyone have a better recommendation?

Also I read to try to keep it to one switch. Unfortunately with the amount of POE devices I have planned I'm not sure if I can get a switch with enough POE power to handle it. I have planned to get a second small switch mostly to use for POE stuff. Is there a reason it's recommended to not use more than one switch as long as I keep the controllers plugged into the main one?

 

Thanks!

We do big jobs and there's no way we can keep everything to one switch. After chatting with Pakedge support recently, what they recommend is 1 cable from the router to the main backbone switch, and then from that switch if you need a secondary. Switches in the router are usually not great, and you only want the router doing one thing - being the gateway between the LAN and the Internet.

I hear good things about UBNT from a bang for your buck standpoint. It takes some legwork to get up and going and to maintain, support is mostly from forums, and since you're setting up your network yourself there may be some finger-pointing if something doesn't work right between you and your dealer (especially with managed switches that may be preventing communication properly). Since Control4 isn't DIY and you'll have to involve an integrator, what have the ones you've talked to said about networking or you taking ownership of it yourself?

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Cyknight Grand Master

Cyknight

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7 minutes ago, thecodeman said:

what they recommend is 1 cable from the router to the main backbone switch, and then from that switch if you need a secondary

This is the NORMAL way of doing it. Add to that that if for some reason you need a THIRD switch, that should go to the MAIN/FIRST switch, not the next one over.

12 minutes ago, thecodeman said:

no way we can keep everything to one switch

Nonsense, there's modular switches that can I'm sure handle your ten biggest jobs all folded into one, unless you do hospitality.

'Course they'd cost about as much as those projects cost now all combined if not more :lol:

 

There's also stackable switches etc, but you're getting into the L3 managed switches, and that's not something I recommend any novice to even contemplate (without support of course).

OP - how many ports do you think you need? Because 48 port PoE switches are hardly uncommon.

 

As for managed vs unmanaged - the recommendation is to stay away from it, because 1) most people don't know how to 'handle' it, though they think they do. 2) Even if you know how to set up a managed switch, that doesn't mean you know how to set up  managed switch to work correctly with C4 3) there is no function for the more expensive managed switches in 99% of the systems 4) and perhaps the most important - should you come across issues with your system that are apparent to be network related - and you have a managed switch, C4 support is likely (and rightly) going to tell you to remove that switch before long (after checking the obvious other common issues).

 

The number 1 tech support issue (and thus time consumer) is networking, with nothing else coming even close to it. THAT is why C4 has 'restrictions' (pretty soft ones mind you) in place that to some may seem 'excessive' - because it's proven time and time again that it is where people fail to get it right.

It's I suspect also the main reason for them to buy Pakedge, in the hope/intend to have a network product/backbone they can support directly. There's something to be said for it.

There's nothing wrong with ubiquity and using it in C4. But I'll admit I'm starting to e tempted to just recommend people use Pakedge - especially on larger setups - because of the added support it brings with it. It isn't cheap, but it IS pretty solid gear.

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cdepaola Mentor

cdepaola

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I run full ubiquiti network: USG Pro 4, CloudKey, AC Pro WAP's, and one of their switches.

Setup was a breeze with the cloudkey and usg pro. Network has been rock solid and I'm loving the bandwidth monitoring capabilities and deep packet inspection.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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bkays Enthusiast

bkays

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My integrator doesn't mind whatever network hardware I choose given my skill set, plus he is also advanced in networking. I'm definitely not dead set on the Ubiquity stuff though either. I mainly went to that brand because of their APs. I figured I would just stay in the same brand since their switches are comparable in price from similar ones I've seen. 

Obviously they are pushing Pakedge, but that's a little pricey. I'm sure it's a very good product, but the cost is much higher than similar products. 

I had originally planned to get this switch: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6ZP3KS9746&cm_re=unmanaged_poe_switch-_-33-124-516-_-Product As I said though, once I decided on the Ubiquity APs I just thought I'd grab their switches as well. However, if having a managed switch will increase the odds of problems I have no problem with unmanaged. 

My main issue with needing multiple switches is the number of POE devices I will have (touchscreens, cameras, APs, etc). I need more POE ports power than a 24 port switch can handle, yet a 48 will be overkill. That's why I was thinking of going with a 24 port, and getting another 8 port for additional POE. I was going to use second switch mainly for the touch screens and cameras. 

I did ask about Araknis, but he hadn't had any experience with them himself and I had found some bad reviews here in the forums which made me cautious since I've never seen them in a working environment myself. And obviously I can't see the prices myself and I didn't bother asking him to check for me. If anyone has any rough estimates on prices for those I'd appreciate it.

As I said though, I'm definitely open to other switch options if anyone has any recommendations? 

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thecodeman Proficient

thecodeman

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On 11/30/2016 at 4:06 PM, bkays said:

My integrator doesn't mind whatever network hardware I choose given my skill set, plus he is also advanced in networking. I'm definitely not dead set on the Ubiquity stuff though either. I mainly went to that brand because of their APs. I figured I would just stay in the same brand since their switches are comparable in price from similar ones I've seen. 

Obviously they are pushing Pakedge, but that's a little pricey. I'm sure it's a very good product, but the cost is much higher than similar products. 

I had originally planned to get this switch: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6ZP3KS9746&cm_re=unmanaged_poe_switch-_-33-124-516-_-Product As I said though, once I decided on the Ubiquity APs I just thought I'd grab their switches as well. However, if having a managed switch will increase the odds of problems I have no problem with unmanaged. 

My main issue with needing multiple switches is the number of POE devices I will have (touchscreens, cameras, APs, etc). I need more POE ports power than a 24 port switch can handle, yet a 48 will be overkill. That's why I was thinking of going with a 24 port, and getting another 8 port for additional POE. I was going to use second switch mainly for the touch screens and cameras. 

I did ask about Araknis, but he hadn't had any experience with them himself and I had found some bad reviews here in the forums which made me cautious since I've never seen them in a working environment myself. And obviously I can't see the prices myself and I didn't bother asking him to check for me. If anyone has any rough estimates on prices for those I'd appreciate it.

As I said though, I'm definitely open to other switch options if anyone has any recommendations? 

You could always get the unmanaged switch(es) you want and use an injector/midspan.

https://www.amazon.com/WS-GPOE-12-48v60w-gigabit-passive-Ethernet-Injector/dp/B00EQBR7M8

 

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