Ping Driver to track occupancy

[cdepaola]

Just curious what people are doing programming wise, in conjunction with Allen's ping driver, to track home occupancy.

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[cdepaola]

Ok, never mind.... Great idea that won't work, I guess I never realized that iPhones turn off their wifi radios when put to sleep. 

Back to Beacons being the answer, who would have thought that tracking who is at home and who is not would be so difficult. 

[Joshua Pressnell]

If what you want is basic occupancy, you could use a couple of IFTTT accounts to do it, provided that each person you're wanting to track has a smartphone.  Just use IFTTT geolocation triggers to call into C4 to set "home/away" variables for each household member.  You'll need one IFTTT account for each member's phone.  Shouldn't be overly complicated to setup.

My needs were a little more complicated that that, because I also want to track which car someone is in.  We have a van and a sedan and we share them, depending on what errands we're running.  I would like the system to identify not only that "I came home", but that "I came home in the van" so that I can open the appropriate garage door automatically.  For that to work, I'd need to hard-wire beacons into the 12V power of my car, and write my own mobile app that recognizes which car I'm in by beacon, and then when I get home/leave by geolocation.

[cdepaola]

The issue is we've found that the geolocation of ifttt isn't awesome and that it puts a fairly good hit on battery life.

Doing a ping of a phone would have been a great and cheap solution but of course keeping wifi active on a phone all of the time would also put a hit on battery life. It can be done but phone needs to be jail broken.

Beacons really offer a TON of possabilities when it comes to automation.  Frankly I'm shocked that C4 hasn't already added this capability, or that someone like Allan hasn't built a driver. 

 

[Joshua Pressnell]

The problem with the driver approach is that doing so would require a native helper-app for both iOS and Android that would need to be installed and maintained, which would then need to be integrated with the C4 driver.  I've looked into doing something like that (I've been an iOS dev much longer than a C4 driver dev), but even if we got the base technology in place, the details get a lot more complicated.  It's highly possible to be in range of several beacons at once, and depending on how you locate them within your home, you could get false positives.  To reduce that, you can reduce the output power, but that means you need to be closer to them before they detect you're there.  You could leave the power higher and put multiple beacons around the house, but then you need somewhat complicated triangulation code to determine where you actually are on an XYZ axis.  

The problem isn't making it... the problem is managing customer expectations.  You expect that it will "just magically work", and that's generally not the case.  I've got beacons all over my house, and I still end up getting "detected" in rooms adjacent to a hallway I'm walking in, for instance.

Of course, if you're not concerned about internal geolocation and are really more concerned about detecting entry/exit points, that simplifies things a little bit... but doing this right is still a complex problem.  Beacons were really designed for "are you near location X" scenarios, like if you want to show some details about museum displays near my current location, for instance.  

[cdepaola]

I do, at least at this time, see it as an entry/exit and by whom. 

I think it would be useful in most C4 installations to be able to track who, if anyone, is in the house and who is not. Things such as setting scenes, lighting, locks, ac, etc.  This has been one of the biggest challenges. Someone leaves the house, C4 should be able to check to see if anyone is home, if no one else is home make sure lights are off, doors are locked, garage door goes down, thermostat is adjusted. You come home and no one is home, scene executes, you arrive but someone is home, don't mess with whats already on, turn on appropriate lighting, if needed, thats not already on, unlock appropriate doors, etc. 

Some of that info could come directly from a beacon such as those from Estimote as they have an ambient light sensor.  Additionally they have NFC so you could have one on a bedroom side table, you put your phone down, the NFC gets read and executes your goodnight macro. 

 

[NextGenAV]

Tested it on my Android and it responds to ping even when it is sleeping so could work with there.

[msgreenf]

Depends if you have wifi enabled while sleep. Don't have to depending on wifi configuration on Android

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[Joshua Pressnell]

Also, that behavior is changing in Android 6 and 7. It's getting a lot harder to do things in the background while the device is sleeping on all mobile phones. What works now may not work later. 

[Matt Lowe]

i use a door lock with different user codes and away button by that same door. works great and never fails

 

i also have a nyce keypad card access has one too to send different commands reliably from my keychain.

 

if you have hue lights they have a nice geolocation setting too.

[Elvis]

The most reliable presence sensors I have are our iPhones on a SmartThings hub. I don't know how it works, but it is very reliable for knowing when we get home. You can find these often for $50 -- and then IFTTT from that to C4.

[turls]

On 12/28/2016 at 10:41 AM, Elvis said:

The most reliable presence sensors I have are our iPhones on a SmartThings hub. I don't know how it works, but it is very reliable for knowing when we get home. You can find these often for $50 -- and then IFTTT from that to C4.

Very interesting.  I am also fighting with unreliability of Geolocation.  It shouldn't be this hard.  Maybe this is the way to go.  Have you tried FollowMe or the IFTTT route through Alan's driver?  I am about ready to give up on FollowMe because it is just too inconsistent on when it detects me pulling into the driveway.  It would be comical if it wasn't 2017, but I am tired of getting about 50/50 on if my door is unlocked or not when I try to open it.

What looks extra special to me about this option is you don't have to have a smart phone because you could use presence sensors for kids, etc.

[Elvis]

5 hours ago, turls said:

What looks extra special to me about this option is you don't have to have a smart phone because you could use presence sensors for kids, etc.

[Edit: It is actually the ST "Arrival" sensor. The Gen1 "presence" sensor wasn't so good.]

I don't know how much the batteries are for the Arrival sensors, but you'll need plenty of them. I think they last 4 months, max. Mine has 13% battery left since activation on Sep 15. (I will say it has been at 13% for a long time and is still working.)  I started with the Arrival sensor and then realized my iPhone was showing up as a sensor. However, they are relatively small and easily kept on a keychain or hooked to a backpack.

I think they have to hit the Zigbee mesh to trigger, however. Don't quote me on that. My wife still has the Arrival sensor in her purse and it always shows about a minute later on arrival and about a minute earlier on departure. It seems very reliable, but just not as quick. (I'm sure taking it out of the bottom of her purse would help.) 

If I look at our history, the iPhone presence seems to be spot on. I had it open the garage door when I arrived when my opener died. The door would be open every time by the time I got up the driveway. In contrast, the other geofencing things I tried, like IFTTT, never worked reliably. Maybe 1 in 20 times. Quickly prompted me to get the ST hub. @pstuart might chime in on linking this to C4, he's the only ST/C4 guru I know of.

I've read hacks on improving the battery life of the presence sensors but never followed up since I discovered the iPhone option.

 

[cdepaola]

Quickness and reliability are the keys and where most solutions currently available fail.

We need an ultra wide band rfid solution for the residential market. These have great range and can place your location down to a few centimeters. Currently available systems are just cost prohibitive as they are designed for large corporate installations.

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[VINCELdUB]

@cdepaola

Do you know of a specific brand that you have seen in a corporate environment? Wondering because this issue has been plaguing this side of the industry for as long as t has been around.

I have a few thoughts on the matter and will be looking into a solution of sorts.

For the entry exit type of idea, there are Bluetooth readers available from Houselogix for example that would work on an entry/exit type of system.

Most devices have Bluetooth. And the Bluetooth radio's unique MAC address can be used as way to track entry exit or even presence altogether. For example, the Bluetooth reader brags about having a long range sensor. If you placed one device at each entry/exit point. Could easily count a device as entered, and then exit if counted again.

Or, even better, have it set to maximum detection and place around the house. Have it poll the devices. If you have good coverage as far as main areas, I don't see why this couldn't work. I know there would be some bugs to work out. But if it did work, every smart device I can think of has a Bluetooth radio in it now. Including tracking keychains and tags. Designed for a smartphone.

Happy Automating!

[zaphod]

We need this technology at home with C4. https://www.wired.com/2017/01/carnival-ocean-medallion-wearable/

[turls]

On 1/3/2017 at 9:05 PM, Elvis said:

If I look at our history, the iPhone presence seems to be spot on. I had it open the garage door when I arrived when my opener died. The door would be open every time by the time I got up the driveway. In contrast, the other geofencing things I tried, like IFTTT, never worked reliably. Maybe 1 in 20 times. Quickly prompted me to get the ST hub. @pstuart might chime in on linking this to C4, he's the only ST/C4 guru I know of.

I've read hacks on improving the battery life of the presence sensors but never followed up since I discovered the iPhone option.

 

Ok, just to be clear, now that I have the SmartThings hub, I need the Alan's IFTTT driver for this to integrate, correct?

[Elvis]

Yes, I would think that's the easiest way. 

[turls]

Bringing this back up again.  Geolocation with SmartThings sucks.  I don't know how it is working for some of you, because it seems to be a widespread issue.  I've got two different hubs setup at two different locations.  Multiple iOS devices.  I've tried native SmartThings and also integrated with Life360.  One location is C4, the other is just SmartThings / Z-Wave.  Everything else with SmartThings is usable (although I haven't done much besides sensors and door locks yet).

It is completely and utterly worthless, and is worse than I had before.

Life360 works fine most of the time.  But you have to "kick" SmartThings to detect a change.  Unacceptable.

I have not tried the presence sensor because it does not get good reviews.  The point is, if a Life360 change doesn't change in SmartThings without a kick, that is a major bug.

And I have gotten no answer from SmartThings support after submitting logs.

Tired of chasing Geolocation with Control4.  They need to do it natively, stat.

I guess next try might be the Homebridge driver?

[ScottGA]

I've had really good success using IFTTT's geolocation functionality (on my iPhone) to trigger events in my C4 system.   A year or two ago, I had some issues with the reliability of IFTTT geolocation triggering an event.  But it now seems like all that has been worked out in the current version.

[sonic30101]

i use the geolocation with my vera controller to turn on/off a virtual switch that c4 monitors. Have tried IFTTT as well as the geolocation in a smartthings hub and the vera has been the most reliable

[ecschnei]

Has anyone utilized Tasker app to trigger events?  What about RFID tags?

[turls]

On 1/3/2017 at 9:05 PM, Elvis said:

If I look at our history, the iPhone presence seems to be spot on. I had it open the garage door when I arrived when my opener died. The door would be open every time by the time I got up the driveway. In contrast, the other geofencing things I tried, like IFTTT, never worked reliably. Maybe 1 in 20 times. Quickly prompted me to get the ST hub. @pstuart might chime in on linking this to C4, he's the only ST/C4 guru I know of.

 

SmartThings Geolocation / Presence is a total bust for me at the moment for the reasons I described in a recent post.  SmartThings support won't even respond to me.  Are you still using it?

[VINCELdUB]

Has anyone utilized Tasker app to trigger events?  What about RFID tags?

I have successfully used some long-range RFID readers at customers homes now. I usually install just inside the garage or outside or at the end of the driveway. Then installing RFID tags on the front license plate. I will post some pictures later. This works very well for vehicles and for people. Small rfid tags or stickers on back of phone or keychains work as well due to the power of the long range sensor.

Solution is perfect for approaching and leaving the home.

To integrate with control4, I use the Houselogix wiegand to rs232 adapter and free Access Control Database driver to read the rfid number. Then some simple programming to trigger events when it sees it.

I know this is not "Geo-Location" but certainly solves most issues.




Happy Automating!!

[Elvis]

On 8/2/2017 at 5:21 AM, turls said:

SmartThings Geolocation / Presence is a total bust for me at the moment for the reasons I described in a recent post.  SmartThings support won't even respond to me.  Are you still using it?

Sorry for the delay in responding. Yes, I'm still using it and it still works via iPhone presence. I have not done a test recently to see how well it works, but I can if you need it. It appears to update at 1 minute intervals. My wife was not 1/4 mile away yet and it clicked over from Present to Away. She left at 6:48 and when the clock ticked over to 6:49 it said "Away." I'll let you know what happens when she gets back.

I just re-read your post. And when you mentioned HomeBridge, I realized that since I installed that, it has been doing the work. The garage door opening triggers the lights so, I'm not 100% sure. Actually, it is working because I'm looking at the "recently" tab on my wife's phone. It's all there in the smartthings app. If you want, I can see how accurate those times are. Just let me know.