C4 lighting

[penn65000]

Thinking of investing in C4 lighting. Would use zigbee (rather than panelized) as this is retrofit. Wondering:

1) does C4 play well w Dimmable leds? Assume I should use all adaptive phase to future proof?

2) anyone concerned about all the zigbee radio waves and effect on humans (suspect not a big deal given all the wifi and cellular radiation)

3) should I wait a bit? C4 came out with new lighting hardware in 2013. Suspect a new release might be coming soon?

4) any thoughts on C4 compared to Leviton dimmers (our leviton elv dimmers flicker -- wondering is c4s are better)?

 

thanks. 

[zaphod]

My personal experience is that C4 doesn't always play well with dimmable LEDs - but most of my dimmers are almost a decade old.  Newer models may work better.

Regarding radio waves and humans - I always find it strange when people say that they don't want their children exposed to wireless signals and protest Wifi in schools, yet many of these same people use baby monitors in their house that use the exact same 2.4GHz frequencies.  If you really worry about that then you should move to Green Bank, WV.

[RyanE]

All the dimmable LED lights I've tried have worked, but even those that work with the Gen1 dimmers have a much more limited dimming range than Incandescents.

Since models of LED lightbulbs change what it seems on a daily basis, your best bet is to get a few of them, try them with your dimmers, and then if they work, buy more of them.

As far as radiation, ZigBee is just a blip compared to WiFi.  Although they're both in the 2.4GHz spectrum, ZigBee are *very* short-lived transmissions, and are lower power.  I don't worry about it at all.

RyanE

 

[penn65000]

48 minutes ago, zaphod said:

My personal experience is that C4 doesn't always play well with dimmable LEDs - but most of my dimmers are almost a decade old.  Newer models may work better.

Regarding radio waves and humans - I always find it strange when people say that they don't want their children exposed to wireless signals and protest Wifi in schools, yet many of these same people use baby monitors in their house that use the exact same 2.4GHz frequencies.  If you really worry about that then you should move to Green Bank, WV.

I acknowledged the zigbee concern may be unfounded. Anyone have thoughts on whether C4 will do a refresh next year?

[eddy.trochez]

My house is decked with LED recessed lights, and bulbs in pendants and lamps. Whole house C4 lighting system and I have no problems dimming them. Light scenes dim up and down beautifully. There is absolutely no reason to change the current ZigBee architecture. I prefer it over the Ra2 system. 

[penn65000]

57 minutes ago, zaphod said:

My personal experience is that C4 doesn't always play well with dimmable LEDs - but most of my dimmers are almost a decade old.  Newer models may work better.

Regarding radio waves and humans - I always find it strange when people say that they don't want their children exposed to wireless signals and protest Wifi in schools, yet many of these same people use baby monitors in their house that use the exact same 2.4GHz frequencies.  If you really worry about that then you should move to Green Bank, WV.

I acknowledged the zigbee concern may be unfounded. Anyone have thoughts on whether C4 will do a refresh next year?

[thecodeman]

7 minutes ago, penn65000 said:

I acknowledged the zigbee concern may be unfounded. Anyone have thoughts on whether C4 will do a refresh next year?

I'd be surprised. The first gen of lighting was around since 2005 with minor tweaks until the much needed upgrade in 13. So, 8 years... I don't see much of a change being needed to come out with a full new line after 3 years, and even then, that it would be incompatible with the current lighting. 

[penn65000]

3 minutes ago, etrochez said:My house is decked with LED recessed lights, and bulbs in pendants and lamps. Whole house C4 lighting system and I have no problems dimming them. Light scenes dim up and down beautifully. There is absolutely no reason to change the current ZigBee architecture. I prefer it over the Ra2 system. 

Thanks for advice. Question: should I use all adaptive phase (even though a bit more money) to future proof? 

[penn65000]

4 minutes ago, thecodeman said:

I'd be surprised. The first gen of lighting was around since 2005 with minor tweaks until the much needed upgrade in 13. So, 8 years... I don't see much of a change being needed to come out with a full new line after 3 years, and even then, that it would be incompatible with the current lighting. 

Does anyone know who manufactures control4's lighting products? 

[thecodeman]

Just now, penn65000 said:

Does anyone know who manufactures control4's lighting products? 

Control4 designs the specs and then its made in China most likely. If you're asking whether this is a Lutron dimmer with a Control4 sticker on it and some software tweaks - (like the new Control4 thermostat is made by Aprilaire) - then no. 

[eddy.trochez]

26 minutes ago, penn65000 said:

Thanks for advice. Question: should I use all adaptive phase (even though a bit more money) to future proof? 

Yes, get the ADP. Also, Control4 has a list of compatible bulbs. 

[vitali]

1. for LEDs for sure better to use adaptive phase dimmers

2. as I remember there is some list of proved LEDs

3. anyways almost all LEDs work, but I would buy few of them and check (not only one, if load too small it can be an issue)

4. all LEDs in same load must be same model. (as I was told, some LEDs can use forward phase and some reverse phase dimming)

 

 

 

 

[Cyknight]

10 hours ago, penn65000 said:

Thinking of investing in C4 lighting. Would use zigbee (rather than panelized) as this is retrofit. Wondering:

1) does C4 play well w Dimmable leds? Assume I should use all adaptive phase to future proof?

2) anyone concerned about all the zigbee radio waves and effect on humans (suspect not a big deal given all the wifi and cellular radiation)

3) should I wait a bit? C4 came out with new lighting hardware in 2013. Suspect a new release might be coming soon?

4) any thoughts on C4 compared to Leviton dimmers (our leviton elv dimmers flicker -- wondering is c4s are better)?

 

thanks. 

1) Yes, if - yes. APD will be your friend in this. Dimmability of LED will largely depend on...the LED

2) Not at all. As Ryan mentioned, ZigBee is low powered. even WiFi worry is hugely overrated (and at the same time these kids have a phone in their pocket all day...) in my personal opinion, but ZigBee signal strength is so low, you may as well worry about the gamma radiation coming in from space....

3) I'd be mind-boggled if they update the line. Added units for specialized purposes perhaps (outlets, or heavy duty fan controllers, or a keypad switch to compliment the keypad dimmer, that sort of thing), but the current line is nowhere near due for a refresh. Oh, and for the record, the old style devices are still fully supported. Even IF they come with a new design, you still wouldn't have to worry about loss of function for years to come I'm confident.

4) Better? Not the correct word. They MAY work better as ELV is reverse phase, and your LEDs may require forward phase. But there's a lot of factors in play - different LED bulbs as mentioned, minimum voltages, and of course whether or not the LED is dimmable at all.

[Thatguy230]

I suggest using 6 button keypad dimmers in every room. 

[penn65000]

16 hours ago, thecodeman said:

I'd be surprised. The first gen of lighting was around since 2005 with minor tweaks until the much needed upgrade in 13. So, 8 years... I don't see much of a change being needed to come out with a full new line after 3 years, and even then, that it would be incompatible with the current lighting. 

 

5 hours ago, Thatguy230 said:

I suggest using 6 button keypad dimmers in every room. 

Why 6 button? To leave option open for room scenes? Not sure I want to explain the 6 button to all our guests!

[Cyknight]

11 minutes ago, penn65000 said:

 

Why 6 button? To leave option open for room scenes? Not sure I want to explain the 6 button to all our guests!

He means configurable - meaning it can have anything from a standard toggle button (order separately) to up to 6 buttons (well 7 if you count the up/down bottom option...).

You don't HAVE to use the max number, but using those instead of standard dimmers means you have options.

[Thatguy230]

4 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

He means configurable - meaning it can have anything from a standard toggle button (order separately) to up to 6 buttons (well 7 if you count the up/down bottom option...).

You don't HAVE to use the max number, but using those instead of standard dimmers means you have options.

Plus you can have the keys etched so everyone knows what each key does. 

[SMHarman]

Why 6 button? To leave option open for room scenes? Not sure I want to explain the 6 button to all our guests!

They are configurable so not always six buttons.

Further you then engrave the keys to remove confusion.

[penn65000]

18 hours ago, thecodeman said:

I'd be surprised. The first gen of lighting was around since 2005 with minor tweaks until the much needed upgrade in 13. So, 8 years... I don't see much of a change being needed to come out with a full new line after 3 years, and even then, that it would be incompatible with the current lighting. 

Thanks!

7 hours ago, Thatguy230 said:

I suggest using 6 button keypad dimmers in every room. 

Why 6 button? To leave option open for room scenes? Not sure I want to explain the 6 button to all our guests!

[penn65000]

11 minutes ago, SMHarman said:

They are configurable so not always six buttons.

Further you then engrave the keys to remove confusion.

Thank you!