Elvis

Baluns, 4k, Audio, XBox One, Oh my

34 posts in this topic

My potential AV closet is 100' from my two primary TVs. Both of these TVs have Xboxes. One is a 4k xbox, so we use it to watch 4k blu-rays. (Although this is less important as blu-ray sucks. Brand new 1st time player with a brand new first time played disc and it still hiccuped two or three times.) But the sound out of the Xbox when gaming is important.

I was going to run HDMI from the Xboxes to the TVs. I was going to run HDbaseT from the receivers in the closets to the TVs.

Sound is the question. Now that we have smarter TVs, we need the TV and Xbox as the audio source back to the receivers. Do I need to run audio out of both Xboxes and both TVs all the way back to the receiver? Or will ARC work?

Will the audio out of the TV send the Xbox audio back to the receiver if the xbox is the HDMI source to the TV?

4k baluns? Recommendations?

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hopefully you have multiple category cables but best way to do this is suck it up and buy more baluns and use Xbox>balun>AVR so the Xbox can stay with tv but be fed thru AVR

 

i simply cannot stress this enough:

 

DO NOT USE ARC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

with the state 4k is in now.

Hard wire the 4k device directly to the 4k display. 

Send audio to the audio source separately.

this will mean running audio back with some type of optical or hdmi extender.

Likely using the tvs toslink output will be a bad idea as most tvs do not pass 5.1 audio

Your options can be narrowed if you let us know what cabling you have between the closet and the tvs

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Matt Lowe said:

Your options can be narrowed if you let us know what cabling you have between the closet and the tvs

Two Cat6 and fishing rope into the tv wall. The closet has direct access to the attic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used Cat6 STP and I have 2 runs per location. My Wiring closet and my 4K TV is about 50 ft apart. I have a HDMI Balun ran from my Leaf Matrix output to my TV, Samsung 4K Media Server and Xbox One-S is connected directly to HDMI input port of the switch. I don't have/watch much 4K, but it still looks good when I do watch the content.

Main Points:

- If you consider a Video Matrix/AVR, then make sure it has support for 4K. If no Matrix/AVR, then leave Xbox next to TV and wire directly.

- Ideally, you want to use Shielded Cat6/7 to cut down interference from electrical, telephony and other cables when wiring long distance.

- Run CAT5 for IR for TV Controls.

 

Just what I recommend.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i would stray from adding anything in the video path other than the source and display hdcp 2.2 sucks and is unrealible even with fully certified receivers in the video path

 

shoot $5k+ video matrices cant get it right

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

actually even $50k plus sony projectors connected directly to the source cant even get hdcp 2.2 to work right lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Biggest cause of sync issues is cables that can't pass the speeds needed for 4k signals.

I have had a JVC tech and a cable tester on site and after testing all kinds of cable using ones that would fully pass the cable tester systems with issues would have none.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, AceOfSpades said:

Xbox One-S is connected directly to HDMI input port of the switch.

@AceOfSpades So the game controllers work okay with the console 50' away? 

I guess I should pick up a controller walk in here to the closet and see if it works. -- Won't turn it on, but once it is on, it seems to work. Football game in progress so I didn't really want to interrupt them long enough for game play. @Matt Lowe will you PM a price on a couple of 100' celerity optic cables, please?

And thanks everyone for the help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Elvis said:

@AceOfSpades So the game controllers work okay with the console 50' away? 

I guess I should pick up a controller walk in here to the closet and see if it works. -- Won't turn it on, but once it is on, it seems to work. Football game in progress so I didn't really want to interrupt them long enough for game play. @Matt Lowe will you PM a price on a couple of 100' celerity optic cables, please?

And thanks everyone for the help.

It'll depend. I had an Xbox One and it wouldn't work from my closet 20f away, yet the PS4 is flawless, and can be used in my theatre around 40 feet away without any real discenrnable glitches (occasionalyl someone states a bad move was a controller issue but....). It's also going to depend on what's in between the device and the controller.

As you mentioned, your best bet is to just try...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Xbox one uses WiFi direct something similar to wifi for the controllers. So they may work 100 feet away, or they may work 10 feet. It all depends on interference.

For example, I often have difficulty maintaining connection even though my console and controller are in the same room because my WiFi router is in the same cabinet as the console.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/29/2016 at 0:20 PM, knowitall said:

DO NOT USE ARC

This sounds like the voice of experience. So how do I get the sound back to the AVR from the TV?

I was going to buy Matt's celerity cables, but if ARC doesn't work and/or should be avoided, for every tv -- the cable runs are getting complicated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ARC requires you to use HDMI-CEC control which circumvents what C4 is doing so your equipment will be all out of whack, even if you hook it up and program it exactly the way ARC wants it, you'll still have multiple input, power, and volume commands being sent to all the different devices from the devices themselves and c4. 

 

Basically hdmi control creates a cluster%#*+ in any control system outside of OEM remotes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed; if you use ARC, don't come crying back here when it doesn't work reliably :)

ARC, and running audio back from the TV via analog, optical, SPDIF are completely different animals. One works OK, the other not so much. If you've read any of my rants in the past though you would know that I think using smart tv apps is more hassle than it's worth...use a dedicated box (AppleTV, Roku, Amazon...whatever) at your rack to feed the TVs the app content.

I know, I know..."but my tv has all these cool apps in it already". Too bad, I say lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed; if you use ARC, don't come crying back here when it doesn't work reliably

ARC, and running audio back from the TV via analog, optical, SPDIF are completely different animals. One works OK, the other not so much. If you've read any of my rants in the past though you would know that I think using smart tv apps is more hassle than it's worth...use a dedicated box (AppleTV, Roku, Amazon...whatever) at your rack to feed the TVs the app content.

I know, I know..."but my tv has all these cool apps in it already". Too bad, I say lol

And then when it is a roku_customchannel premier ➕ and easier to put at the TV to get the 4 K to the TV over a 3ft cable what is used to backfeed.

What baluns or otherwise do you recommend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And then when it is a roku_customchannel premier and easier to put at the TV to get the 4 K to the TV over a 3ft cable what is used to backfeed.

What baluns or otherwise do you recommend.

Well, I don't see the OP mentioning how he intends to distribute video from the head end. If he's using a 4K matrix or AVR, to me it makes sense to put said Roku in the rack. If not and it is easier / more cost effective to have it local at the TV, in the case of that Roku (which only has HDMI output) you would need an HDMI audio extractor that also handles 4K video pass-through. I've rarely had a source like that local and needed to backfeed and when I did I used Crestron but we were only concerned with 1080p, not 4K. So I don't have a recommendation on a unit that will strip audio from the HDMI and handle 4K video pass-through. If I were to need one? I'd give Brent at Ethereal a call for a recommendation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, I don't see the OP mentioning how he intends to distribute video from the head end. If he's using a 4K matrix or AVR, to me it makes sense to put said Roku in the rack. If not and it is easier / more cost effective to have it local at the TV, in the case of that Roku (which only has HDMI output) you would need an HDMI audio extractor that also handles 4K video pass-through. I've rarely had a source like that local and needed to backfeed and when I did I used Crestron but we were only concerned with 1080p, not 4K. So I don't have a recommendation on a unit that will strip audio from the HDMI and handle 4K video pass-through. If I were to need one? I'd give Brent at Ethereal a call for a recommendation.

Its a bit of a thread hijack by me actually.

When I go 4k I'd also need to upgrade the Sony 1800 es avr and likely balun in place of a working 30ft/50ft HDMI cable and I did not sure tube the run so I'd be working with cat6s cat5e coax and HDMI as cable options.

So option E for expensive. Roku Premier at the rack, new AVR, new TV and 4K baluns.

Option C for cheaper. And more to spend on the TV, say an oled or 940 not an 850.

Roku at the TV and get the 5.1 DD+ back to the rack. Nobody watched BD here it's all streaming. In fact I'm not even sure when the tivo was last watched. Amazon, Netflix, vudu, dma as sources.

But how to get the audio back. With the premier plus I could have the audio on toslink but have no cable.

So ARC is out if I want a happy life, happy wife.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, d1amund said:

Well, I don't see the OP mentioning how he intends to distribute video from the head end.

No video matrix. I plan on putting the AVRs and all non-4k equipment in the rack. The 4k xbox and 4k Roku will be direct HDMI connect to the one and only 4k TV. The other Xbox will also be directly connected to the other TV.

All the TVs have optical audio out.

Questions:
1. I'm assuming the optical audio out is always hot. Whatever sound arrives at the TV (regardless of how) is piped back out the optical out. Is this true? Any major issues with this if so?

2. Do I need an audio balun or combination balun to make this happen? Will a 100' optical cable work or do I need some sort of booster?

What's the approved solution? This has got to be done regularly by you pros. Thanks.

10 hours ago, SMHarman said:

So ARC is out if I want a happy life, happy wife.

I am 100% with you on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would convert the optical out of the Xbox to coaxial and bang it down a coax to the receiver digital coax in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
    • 1 Posts
    • 26 Views
    • 5 Posts
    • 56 Views
    • 3 Posts
    • 68 Views
    • 11 Posts
    • 165 Views
    • 4 Posts
    • 148 Views
    • 10 Posts
    • 182 Views
    • 10 Posts
    • 188 Views