Elvis Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 My potential AV closet is 100' from my two primary TVs. Both of these TVs have Xboxes. One is a 4k xbox, so we use it to watch 4k blu-rays. (Although this is less important as blu-ray sucks. Brand new 1st time player with a brand new first time played disc and it still hiccuped two or three times.) But the sound out of the Xbox when gaming is important. I was going to run HDMI from the Xboxes to the TVs. I was going to run HDbaseT from the receivers in the closets to the TVs. Sound is the question. Now that we have smarter TVs, we need the TV and Xbox as the audio source back to the receivers. Do I need to run audio out of both Xboxes and both TVs all the way back to the receiver? Or will ARC work? Will the audio out of the TV send the Xbox audio back to the receiver if the xbox is the HDMI source to the TV? 4k baluns? Recommendations? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Hopefully you have multiple category cables but best way to do this is suck it up and buy more baluns and use Xbox>balun>AVR so the Xbox can stay with tv but be fed thru AVR i simply cannot stress this enough: DO NOT USE ARC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Most people here probably use binary baluns from snapAV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 with the state 4k is in now. Hard wire the 4k device directly to the 4k display. Send audio to the audio source separately. this will mean running audio back with some type of optical or hdmi extender. Likely using the tvs toslink output will be a bad idea as most tvs do not pass 5.1 audio Your options can be narrowed if you let us know what cabling you have between the closet and the tvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvis Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 44 minutes ago, Matt Lowe said: Your options can be narrowed if you let us know what cabling you have between the closet and the tvs Two Cat6 and fishing rope into the tv wall. The closet has direct access to the attic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceOfSpades Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 I used Cat6 STP and I have 2 runs per location. My Wiring closet and my 4K TV is about 50 ft apart. I have a HDMI Balun ran from my Leaf Matrix output to my TV, Samsung 4K Media Server and Xbox One-S is connected directly to HDMI input port of the switch. I don't have/watch much 4K, but it still looks good when I do watch the content. Main Points: - If you consider a Video Matrix/AVR, then make sure it has support for 4K. If no Matrix/AVR, then leave Xbox next to TV and wire directly. - Ideally, you want to use Shielded Cat6/7 to cut down interference from electrical, telephony and other cables when wiring long distance. - Run CAT5 for IR for TV Controls. Just what I recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 if you can run cable get some fiber from http://www.celeritytek.com/product.html we carry them all and then you can do whatever you want where you want it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 i would stray from adding anything in the video path other than the source and display hdcp 2.2 sucks and is unrealible even with fully certified receivers in the video path shoot $5k+ video matrices cant get it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 actually even $50k plus sony projectors connected directly to the source cant even get hdcp 2.2 to work right lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annex⁴ Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Biggest cause of sync issues is cables that can't pass the speeds needed for 4k signals. I have had a JVC tech and a cable tester on site and after testing all kinds of cable using ones that would fully pass the cable tester systems with issues would have none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 i would stray from adding anything in the video path other than the source and display hdcp 2.2 sucks and is unrealible even with fully certified receivers in the video path shoot $5k+ video matrices cant get it right http://www.cepro.com/article/hdmi_corner_traffic_jam_on_the_hdmi_highway/hdmi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 BTW the DPL Certified Cables http://www.dpllabs.com/page/dpl-approved-products Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvis Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 3 hours ago, AceOfSpades said: Xbox One-S is connected directly to HDMI input port of the switch. @AceOfSpades So the game controllers work okay with the console 50' away? I guess I should pick up a controller walk in here to the closet and see if it works. -- Won't turn it on, but once it is on, it seems to work. Football game in progress so I didn't really want to interrupt them long enough for game play. @Matt Lowe will you PM a price on a couple of 100' celerity optic cables, please? And thanks everyone for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 ill send a pm soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 6 hours ago, Elvis said: @AceOfSpades So the game controllers work okay with the console 50' away? I guess I should pick up a controller walk in here to the closet and see if it works. -- Won't turn it on, but once it is on, it seems to work. Football game in progress so I didn't really want to interrupt them long enough for game play. @Matt Lowe will you PM a price on a couple of 100' celerity optic cables, please? And thanks everyone for the help. It'll depend. I had an Xbox One and it wouldn't work from my closet 20f away, yet the PS4 is flawless, and can be used in my theatre around 40 feet away without any real discenrnable glitches (occasionalyl someone states a bad move was a controller issue but....). It's also going to depend on what's in between the device and the controller. As you mentioned, your best bet is to just try... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funnyfarm299 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Xbox one uses WiFi direct something similar to wifi for the controllers. So they may work 100 feet away, or they may work 10 feet. It all depends on interference. For example, I often have difficulty maintaining connection even though my console and controller are in the same room because my WiFi router is in the same cabinet as the console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvis Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 On 12/29/2016 at 0:20 PM, knowitall said: DO NOT USE ARC This sounds like the voice of experience. So how do I get the sound back to the AVR from the TV? I was going to buy Matt's celerity cables, but if ARC doesn't work and/or should be avoided, for every tv -- the cable runs are getting complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 ARC requires you to use HDMI-CEC control which circumvents what C4 is doing so your equipment will be all out of whack, even if you hook it up and program it exactly the way ARC wants it, you'll still have multiple input, power, and volume commands being sent to all the different devices from the devices themselves and c4. Basically hdmi control creates a cluster%#*+ in any control system outside of OEM remotes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d1amund Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Agreed; if you use ARC, don't come crying back here when it doesn't work reliably ARC, and running audio back from the TV via analog, optical, SPDIF are completely different animals. One works OK, the other not so much. If you've read any of my rants in the past though you would know that I think using smart tv apps is more hassle than it's worth...use a dedicated box (AppleTV, Roku, Amazon...whatever) at your rack to feed the TVs the app content. I know, I know..."but my tv has all these cool apps in it already". Too bad, I say lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Agreed; if you use ARC, don't come crying back here when it doesn't work reliably ARC, and running audio back from the TV via analog, optical, SPDIF are completely different animals. One works OK, the other not so much. If you've read any of my rants in the past though you would know that I think using smart tv apps is more hassle than it's worth...use a dedicated box (AppleTV, Roku, Amazon...whatever) at your rack to feed the TVs the app content. I know, I know..."but my tv has all these cool apps in it already". Too bad, I say lol And then when it is a roku_customchannel premier ➕ and easier to put at the TV to get the 4 K to the TV over a 3ft cable what is used to backfeed. What baluns or otherwise do you recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d1amund Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 And then when it is a roku_customchannel premier and easier to put at the TV to get the 4 K to the TV over a 3ft cable what is used to backfeed. What baluns or otherwise do you recommend. Well, I don't see the OP mentioning how he intends to distribute video from the head end. If he's using a 4K matrix or AVR, to me it makes sense to put said Roku in the rack. If not and it is easier / more cost effective to have it local at the TV, in the case of that Roku (which only has HDMI output) you would need an HDMI audio extractor that also handles 4K video pass-through. I've rarely had a source like that local and needed to backfeed and when I did I used Crestron but we were only concerned with 1080p, not 4K. So I don't have a recommendation on a unit that will strip audio from the HDMI and handle 4K video pass-through. If I were to need one? I'd give Brent at Ethereal a call for a recommendation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Well, I don't see the OP mentioning how he intends to distribute video from the head end. If he's using a 4K matrix or AVR, to me it makes sense to put said Roku in the rack. If not and it is easier / more cost effective to have it local at the TV, in the case of that Roku (which only has HDMI output) you would need an HDMI audio extractor that also handles 4K video pass-through. I've rarely had a source like that local and needed to backfeed and when I did I used Crestron but we were only concerned with 1080p, not 4K. So I don't have a recommendation on a unit that will strip audio from the HDMI and handle 4K video pass-through. If I were to need one? I'd give Brent at Ethereal a call for a recommendation. Its a bit of a thread hijack by me actually. When I go 4k I'd also need to upgrade the Sony 1800 es avr and likely balun in place of a working 30ft/50ft HDMI cable and I did not sure tube the run so I'd be working with cat6s cat5e coax and HDMI as cable options. So option E for expensive. Roku Premier at the rack, new AVR, new TV and 4K baluns. Option C for cheaper. And more to spend on the TV, say an oled or 940 not an 850. Roku at the TV and get the 5.1 DD+ back to the rack. Nobody watched BD here it's all streaming. In fact I'm not even sure when the tivo was last watched. Amazon, Netflix, vudu, dma as sources. But how to get the audio back. With the premier plus I could have the audio on toslink but have no cable. So ARC is out if I want a happy life, happy wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvis Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 10 hours ago, d1amund said: Well, I don't see the OP mentioning how he intends to distribute video from the head end. No video matrix. I plan on putting the AVRs and all non-4k equipment in the rack. The 4k xbox and 4k Roku will be direct HDMI connect to the one and only 4k TV. The other Xbox will also be directly connected to the other TV. All the TVs have optical audio out. Questions: 1. I'm assuming the optical audio out is always hot. Whatever sound arrives at the TV (regardless of how) is piped back out the optical out. Is this true? Any major issues with this if so? 2. Do I need an audio balun or combination balun to make this happen? Will a 100' optical cable work or do I need some sort of booster? What's the approved solution? This has got to be done regularly by you pros. Thanks. 10 hours ago, SMHarman said: So ARC is out if I want a happy life, happy wife. I am 100% with you on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowitall Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 TV optical out will not get you Dolby Digital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextGenAV Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I would convert the optical out of the Xbox to coaxial and bang it down a coax to the receiver digital coax in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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