2017 Thoughts for Control4

[martymohr]

I love this thread – its déjà vu (except back then I was the dealer, not the end-user). In the late ‘70s one of our customers bought a CP/M “micro-computer” (my company sold software for Wang mini-computers). Of course we all laughed and asked what he could possibly do with a machine that had limited capabilities plus, of course, he knew nothing about computers or software. His (somewhat abbreviated) answer: it’s not what I can do WITH the machine, it’s that I can do it WITHOUT you. Turns out he was right!

Just saying ….

 

[jfh]

12 minutes ago, David Paxton said:

However, for ever user, like yourself, who is the kind of person who could easily work out composer will be 10 users who will tie themselves in a knot and then scream from the rooftops how rubbish control4 is.

 

I don't disagree with that statement.   But those 10 users aren't being honest and you can't define your business model solely based on what dishonest people might do.  

 

If every business had had to filter out dishonest or stupid people as customers there would be a lot fewer businesses.

 

i just don't understand why so many dealers are adverse to customer control - after all it is going to be the local dealer most likely fixing customer-created screw ups, billing out at full rate.  Talk about a built in market with zero customer acquisition cost!

[koxkp]

16 minutes ago, Simplyauto1 said:

Platinum & Pinacle dealers exist for a reason and its not just because of the numbers we put up, every year...  Its because we don't tie up the tech support line.  Because the vast majority of us who have been around know how to engineer, install and support a system & our clients.  Its because we get passed from client to pre qualified client, because were great at what we do and we make $$$ doing it.  Bottom line, work with the right dealer or, well,  don't....  

 

You sound like the exception if you do what you describe your customer service speaks for itself and non of your customers would ever think to switch to break things on their own.

For me local dealers didn't really, I went to a Pinnacle dealer in my area and they basically hung up on me when I said I didn't want to spend "at minimum $60k, but probably closer to $100k" for one of their projects. When finding a dealer it is definitely a match both ways if the relationship will work for client and user.

If you've read even parts of this thread the people that want some access to pro have usually had bad experiences with response time or quality. Your client base sounds like quite the opposite.

It is touchy to change a whole business model that for the most part works as the status quo, but once more companies get in this space C4 needs to keep up and stay on their toes to stay innovative with market share.

[msgreenf]

7 minutes ago, jfh said:

  But those 10 users aren't being honest and you can't define your business model solely based on what dishonest people might do.  

not sure that makes sense.  It's not about being honest or not, it's about having real knowledge not perceived knowledge.  

[Simplyauto1]

7 minutes ago, jfh said:

@Simplyauto1  - I really don't see anyone clammoring to eliminate the dealer model.   I certainly don't want to see C4 gear sold direct.

Opening up Pro to C4 qualified non-dealers is not (or should not be) a threat to any good dealer.  Even if such access included direct access to support (seems unlikely), non-dealers aren't going to call in at a higher rate (and I would argue they are more likely to resolve issues than on their own - since that was the primary reason they want Pro in the first place).

 

What is a qualified non dealer? what qualifications do you speak of?  

 

 

[msgreenf]

Just now, Simplyauto1 said:

What is a qualified non dealer? what qualifications do you speak of?  

 

 

a concept he made up a few pages ago of training + pay

[Simplyauto1]

ahh... missed that, my bad

 

[cdepaola]

I always love the argument that if so and so does this we will leave or move on. I'm going to take my ball and go home. What are you going to move on to in order to support your family?

Everyone understand that business need to make money so folks can support a family that's a given. No one here is advocating ruining someone's livelihood. Offering Pro for sale would not ruin anyone's business. C4 is a fairly high end product and most high end customers aren't going to want to do any of this, a few will and those folks will pay for it.

Want a win/win proposition? Let folks start a new business model, a customer support/remote programming, etc business. Make them attend tech classes and they get Pro. No access to products, etc. just KB and software. This could be a good business for someone. Every dealer I've worked with in the Chicago area would prefer to do installs everyday and never touch a system again. This would allow them to do that.

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[jfh]

4 minutes ago, cdepaola said:

Want a win/win proposition? Let folks start a new business model, a customer support/remote programming, etc business. Make them attend tech classes and they get Pro. No access to products, etc. just KB and software. This could be a good business for someone. Every dealer I've worked with in the Chicago area would prefer to do installs everyday and never touch a system again. This would allow them to do that.

 

This is an extension I would love to see.  I'd be very interested in a starting a business like this.

[Simplyauto1]

1 minute ago, cdepaola said:

Every dealer I've worked with in the Chicago area would prefer to do installs everyday and never touch a system again. This would allow them to do that.

 

IMO thats a flawed business model.  We make it a point to not only keep our clients in the loop through marketing efforts but visit them quarterly for maintenance.  At which time we take care of any software/equipment upgrades.  Result = client feels good about paying for maintenance because their system operates at an optimal level.  Dealer gets paid for service.  Dealer gets referred.  Repeat.

[koxkp]

2 minutes ago, Simplyauto1 said:

IMO thats a flawed business model.  We make it a point to not only keep our clients in the loop through marketing efforts but visit them quarterly for maintenance.  At which time we take care of any software/equipment upgrades.  Result = client feels good about paying for maintenance because their system operates at an optimal level.  Dealer gets paid for service.  Dealer gets referred.  Repeat.

This seems like the way it should work, but for whatever reason for me and others here dealers only want to do an initial install and then hard to find/impossible to find later for upgrades.

Happy customers/repeat business/referrals only seems like a sound business model, but what do I know?

[Simplyauto1]

15 minutes ago, cdepaola said:

 

Want a win/win proposition? Let folks start a new business model, a customer support/remote programming, etc business. Make them attend tech classes and they get Pro. No access to products, etc. just KB and software.

Where the win/win...?  Look, just bc you go to tech1 doesn't mean you're going to come out and light the world on fire with your new found skill set.  It takes time, a lot of time and a lot of projects to become a good programmer.  You're proposing an end user get certified, download Pro and if Im understanding you correctly, put himself out there to not only work on his own system but offer services in a setting like this.  Where no doubt he would charge next to nothing and more than likely create issues for the original dealer next time he has to do an onsite.  Sounds like a disaster to me.

Not to mention, what happens when this programmer hits a wall and can't solve a problem, who's he gonna call?  Trust me, C4 wont open up a special- DIY/certified, money making on the side, amateur programmer tech support hotline.

Not everything gets solved through a remote connection, even for us, the professionals.

[cdepaola]

I can tell you one of the issues here. Every and I mean every dealer I've used and spoken to at length all have contracts with new home builders and the building pace her is back to pre-crash. They can only do so much and if all their work is on new installs someone gets left out and that's those who already have systems.

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[msgreenf]

18 minutes ago, cdepaola said:

I can tell you one of the issues here. Every and I mean every dealer I've used and spoken to at length all have contracts with new home builders and the building pace her is back to pre-crash. They can only do so much and if all their work is on new installs someone gets left out and that's those who already have systems.

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that is someone who has a short term business model.  Good companies focus on both.

[cdepaola]

Then Chicago has a lot of short term dealers.

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[Thatguy230]

Chicago and corruption go hand in hand. 

[jfh]

36 minutes ago, Simplyauto1 said:

 We make it a point to not only keep our clients in the loop through marketing efforts but visit them quarterly for maintenance.  At which time we take care of any software/equipment upgrades.  Result = client feels good about paying for maintenance because their system operates at an optimal level.  Dealer gets paid for service.  Dealer gets referred.  Repeat.

If all C4 dealers did that, things might not be so bad.

In over two years, I've gotten zero marketing from my dealer or C4.  Uninitiated follow up to see if I'm happy or things need to be done?   That would be nice, but not holding my breath it will ever happen.  

If all customers had dealers do what you do, allowing end users more control wouldn't be as significant an issue as it is.

 

[Simplyauto1]

1 minute ago, jfh said:

 

In over two years, I've gotten zero marketing from my dealer or C4.  Uninitiated follow up to see if I'm happy or things need to be done?   That would be nice, but not holding my breath it will ever happen.  

 

 

Ping me your email, Ill add you to our email list

[Axis24]

5 minutes ago, jfh said:

If all C4 dealers did that, things might not be so bad.

In over two years, I've gotten zero marketing from my dealer or C4.  Uninitiated follow up to see if I'm happy or things need to be done?   That would be nice, but not holding my breath it will ever happen.  

If all customers had dealers do what you do, allowing end users more control wouldn't be as significant an issue as it is.

 

If your dealer set you up your account properly then you should at minimum receive emails from Control4 directly as to new things coming and follow ups. If your dealer is in the long haul and wants to work on Installation and also Service, then they would market and keep up with their clients.

[jfh]

8 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

that is someone who has a short term business model.  Good companies focus on both.

Agreed.

Unfortunately most companies really do only focus on the short term or the next quarter or year or so.  Companies like Amazon who truly focus on long term are few and far between.

When I did consulting, most of my clients understood they should plan long term, but they were far more concerned about the next six months than the next six years.   

I suspect the vast majority of C4 dealers are only focused on short term results, assuming they can pivot as necessary if required.    

[msgreenf]

Just now, jfh said:

Agreed.

Unfortunately most companies really do only focus on the short term or the next quarter or year or so.  Companies like Amazon who truly focus on long term are few and far between.

When I did consulting, most of my clients understood they should plan long term, but they were far more concerned about the next six months than the next six years.   

I suspect the vast majority of C4 dealers are only focused on short term results, assuming they can pivot as necessary if required.    

i would argue most view 1 year as far out planning.  But really working with existing customers isn't long term planning, it's customer experience.  And people that know acquiring new customers is much harder then getting work from existing.

[koxkp]

32 minutes ago, Simplyauto1 said:

You're proposing an end user get certified, download Pro and if Im understanding you correctly, put himself out there to not only work on his own system but offer services in a setting like this.  Where no doubt he would charge next to nothing and more than likely create issues for the original dealer next time he has to do an onsite.  Sounds like a disaster to me

You get what you pay for if people really want to go this route.

33 minutes ago, Simplyauto1 said:

Not to mention, what happens when this programmer hits a wall and can't solve a problem, who's he gonna call?  

They would end up calling a actual certified dealer like yourself to get their system running and you can charge them hourly for the mess they created.

In IT (the field I mostly know) there are a million certifications you can take with a grain of salt. Some hold more weight than others, but same goes for C4. If some hack wrecks a project, someone with the highest certifications on their resume can come in and give some confidence they know what they're doing.

Pinnacle dealers vs DIY users are on different levels and I don't think anyone's arguing that.

[Axis24]

1 minute ago, jfh said:

Agreed.

Unfortunately most companies really do only focus on the short term or the next quarter or year or so.  Companies like Amazon who truly focus on long term are few and far between.

When I did consulting, most of my clients understood they should plan long term, but they were far more concerned about the next six months than the next six years.   

I suspect the vast majority of C4 dealers are only focused on short term results, assuming they can pivot as necessary if required.    

That is a sad thing. I have worked for companies like this, it is amazing how it is an "Ok concept" to not worry about service. I have seen it more and more in the thoughts of most businesses, not only AV companies, how they are so willing to work towards putting out the major fires, instead of working on preventative maintenance and the quality of the original install.

[jfh]

2 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

 And people that know acquiring new customers is much harder then getting work from existing.

 

Absolutely.  But new customers / initial installs tend to be more lucrative so it's easy to see how some dealers prioritize them over maintaining and nuturing relationships with existing customers.

 

  

[SMHarman]

 

Absolutely.  But new customers / initial installs tend to be more lucrative so it's easy to see how some dealers prioritize them over maintaining and nuturing relationships with existing customers.

 

  

But RMR on predominantly working systems is gravy.

One headcount supported by RMR fees is a win for everyone.