jfh Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, SMHarman said: But RMR on predominantly working systems is gravy. One headcount supported by RMR fees is a win for everyone. What does RMR stand for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 What does RMR stand for? Recurring Monthly Revenue Aka service plan. I even know a dealer that basically leases the controllers as part of the RMR. After 3 years your controller is swapped out for the latest one as part of the plan. Pain free hardware sale. Pain free visit to bring a new toy. Keeps clients current and getting upgrades etc. Bit like the old cell phone plan where you paid $30 a month more instead of buying the phone up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axis24 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 What does RMR stand for? Recurring Monthly Revenue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplyauto1 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, Axis24 said: Recurring Monthly Revenue Retirement Plan, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Around here they have RMR and its not for small time consumers, its called housing developments that are putting up hundreds of houses all standard with Control4. Three closest dealers to me have all stated that they are basically booked out for 2017 with new installs. Maybe they are blowing smoke, I don't know, but these are guys I run in the same circle with so its not me calling them looking for some small maintenance issue and them blowing me off. This was just casual conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 I just added a smartthings hub to play with the ifttt driver and I can tell you that after playing with the native interface and ability of one of c4's "competitors" that it leaves A LOT to be desired so consider your alternatives. As stated previously: URC, RTI, Crestron dont even let their customers have an interface at all like Composer HE. The DIY route is choppy and disjointed. Have fun with Smartthings/Wink and harmony hubs cause I would just not even try dealing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplyauto1 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 15 minutes ago, cdepaola said: Around here they have RMR and its not for small time consumers, its called housing developments that are putting up hundreds of houses all standard with Control4. Three closest dealers to me have all stated that they are basically booked out for 2017 with new installs. Maybe they are blowing smoke, I don't know, but these are guys I run in the same circle with so its not me calling them looking for some small maintenance issue and them blowing me off. This was just casual conversation. Confused- Chicago has 90 dealers within a 106 mile radius... 6 Pinnacle 10 Platinum 21 Gold 53 Authorized. Your market is saturated with Dealers. How many homes are they building in Chicago???? No one can help you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Not specifically looking for help, simply giving a picture of the market here and the way things have worked in the past and continue to work. We are the city where you need an electrician to plug in an extension cord. Greater Chicagoland area is huge, most dealers, at least those I've spoken to and the ones I'm friends with, don't travel more then 20-30 miles. I've worked with two of the Platinum dealers and they want nothing to do with follow up after an install. They will work with you but the time line was always 2-4 weeks and sometimes 4-6 depending on what you needed. How many homes are we builing? Well in my community and the one next to me we have sub divisions going up all over with an average size being 500-1000 homes. These are 500k and up homes mind you. We've got one subdivision just finishing thats bigger then many of the cities around us. Housing is nearly back to what it was pre crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplyauto1 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Maybe I need to open a satellite office. I hear there are a lot of Polak's there. I would fit right in, haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Just now, Simplyauto1 said: Maybe I need to open a satellite office. I hear there are a lot of Polak's there. I would fit right in, haha Yeah lot of good polak's here in this city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arden.ballard Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 As a newbie end user who joined this forum to lurk and learn about C4, this thread and the suspected pessimism--not necessarily about the product but more so the DEALER--really has me considering not integrating my new home at all. I'm terrible at selecting tradesmen and have a knack for getting the wrong people at my home to help me. If I'm investing ANY money (I've had quotes between 25-55k for the same job?), I want the product to work. That's all I really care about at the end of the day. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatguy230 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 It's worth it don't let the banter here deter you. My dealer is great and responds most times with in hours for things he can do remotely. I love c4 and couldn't imagine my home not having it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 As a newbie end user who joined this forum to lurk and learn about C4, this thread and the suspected pessimism--not necessarily about the product but more so the DEALER--really has me considering not integrating my new home at all. I'm terrible at selecting tradesmen and have a knack for getting the wrong people at my home to help me. If I'm investing ANY money (I've had quotes between 25-55k for the same job?), I want the product to work. That's all I really care about at the end of the day. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk So your best bet is the quote somewhere in the middle with a dealer you like. If you are comparing the same spec The 55k guy doesn't want the work. Too busy. Will push someone along for 55k The 25k is going to overrun or not be able to get the job done on budget. Those in the middle have the time and quoting ability. Further, if it is up and running you have some change to spend on a remote dealer here to fix the wish list. Good luck it's a great system. Also the composer app they now have on the dealer phone is great for them. Want a name changed or a light switch added they can do that anywhere there is a data connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdavidson Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 On 1/6/2017 at 4:53 PM, SMHarman said: Recurring Monthly Revenue Aka service plan. I even know a dealer that basically leases the controllers as part of the RMR. After 3 years your controller is swapped out for the latest one as part of the plan. Pain free hardware sale. Pain free visit to bring a new toy. Keeps clients current and getting upgrades etc. Bit like the old cell phone plan where you paid $30 a month more instead of buying the phone up front. I would be interested in discussing what a typical RMR plan would look like. I’m a programmer for a Platinum dealer and we have actively been discussing how to properly roll out something along these lines. We have plenty of customers who text or call looking for these “quick service” calls and we have so many new projects, deviating from our schedule can be hard sometimes. It’s would be fantastic as a programmer to schedule out a service plan to customers so we could take care of them at their appt instead of giving a window that’s over a week away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 HAaaS (Home Automation as a Service) - interesting concept. @Sdavidson- have you ever considered hiring a support person to just do remote support. I am guessing that a high proportion of those service calls could be done remotely and never require a site visit. That person could bring in enough revenue to offset their cost and allow your other folks to continue to focus on new projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, zaphod said: HAaaS (Home Automation as a Service) - interesting concept. @Sdavidson- have you ever considered hiring a support person to just do remote support. I am guessing that a high proportion of those service calls could be done remotely and never require a site visit. That person could bring in enough revenue to offset their cost and allow your other folks to continue to focus on new projects. Great idea. I've proposed doing this for a number of dealers, but none have seen the benefit of having a software only support position. They want everyone to do everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I would be happy to do any remote programming for dealers that are busy and have a good lead time to do suppprt either on a sub contractor or straight hourly basis as needed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatguy230 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 1 hour ago, jfh said: Great idea. I've proposed doing this for a number of dealers, but none have seen the benefit of having a software only support position. They want everyone to do everything. My dealer has a guy who just handles programming remotely. They are a fairly large dealer tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod220 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Why do I need a dealer to add devices with Control4, but not Homekit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 21 minutes ago, mod220 said: Why do I need a dealer to add devices with Control4, but not Homekit? Same could be said for elan, savant and crestron. You should ask on their forums too to get a well rounded opinion Homekit has a few dozen devices. C4 has over 10,000 devices. Tons of talk on here about the differences. C4 is a business. They feel it’s best to let dealers do the work to provide a level of consistent experiences across the board. And the company seems healthy. They are not a direct to consumer company. Could be complexity of installs. Could be supporting a 24x7 hotline is too expensive. It could be because their competition is 100% dealer based so c4 fancies themselves as a nice middle ground with when/then and ComposerHE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod220 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 17 minutes ago, eggzlot said: Same could be said for elan, savant and crestron. You should ask on their forums too to get a well rounded opinion Homekit has a few dozen devices. C4 has over 10,000 devices. Tons of talk on here about the differences. C4 is a business. They feel it’s best to let dealers do the work to provide a level of consistent experiences across the board. And the company seems healthy. They are not a direct to consumer company. Could be complexity of installs. Could be supporting a 24x7 hotline is too expensive. It could be because their competition is 100% dealer based so c4 fancies themselves as a nice middle ground with when/then and ComposerHE The short answer is the model is broken, C4 is great for dealers and that secret is no longer a secret. Just a matter of time before C4 is toast, look at the stock price, look at the CEO dumping his stock, the dealers are in denial. Do you need compatibility with 10,000 products? No, people want simplicity, convenience, and value, none of which a dealership network provides. Whats funny is anytime a consumer on here has an issue, the quick response is “you have a bad dealer,” then on the next thread people defend the dealer model. What! If I can add devices for free with Homekit, on top of not paying for a controller, all while avoiding “bad dealers,” no dealer will convince me the value is to my benefit. If dealers are the root of the problem, and an added cost, what is the true value? Waiting on and then paying a dealer to add a light switch? Say that out loud and tell me without laughing that makes any sense at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 I think you are really missing the value prop of c4. If you only want the few pages of devices support by homekit then it's perfect for you. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, mod220 said: The short answer is the model is broken, C4 is great for dealers and that secret is no longer a secret. Just a matter of time before C4 is toast, look at the stock price, look at the CEO dumping his stock, the dealers are in denial. Do you need compatibility with 10,000 products? No, people want simplicity, convenience, and value, none of which a dealership network provides. Whats funny is anytime a consumer on here has an issue, the quick response is “you have a bad dealer,” then on the next thread people defend the dealer model. What! If I can add devices for free with Homekit, on top of not paying for a controller, all while avoiding “bad dealers,” no dealer will convince me the value is to my benefit. If dealers are the root of the problem, and an added cost, what is the true value? Waiting on and then paying a dealer to add a light switch? Say that out loud and tell me without laughing that makes any sense at all? Being the stock price is trading near an all time high not sure why you point that out. The ceo selling stock has been debunked. It’s normal practice in corporate America. I’ve had c4 for 5 years. Never once had to call a dealer to just add a light switch. And I have about 50 switches in my house. I set them up 5 years ago and that’s been it. What is great is we have a free economy. Why post and rant? If you like HomeKit and it works for you go have at it. What is stopping you? I can give you a dozen things or more I can do but HomeKit can’t do. Maybe you don’t need those features. I do. Actually dealers are convenient no? I don’t fix my car. It’s more convenient to let a mechanic do it. I didn’t add a backup sump pump, it was more convenient to let a plumber do it. And most of the time it’s better to let my dealer do c4 programming even though I have HE and can do it. I have a full time job. When I get home I don’t want to sit and program and go on user forums to troubleshoot. And if I mess up I hear it from the wife!! I pay someone and it works. That’s the definition of convenience no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod220 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 19 minutes ago, msgreenf said: I think you are really missing the value prop of c4. If you only want the few pages of devices support by homekit then it's perfect for you. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk The value of C4 is diminishing, why can't you just admit this is completely true? It is still a superior system, but the margin of superiority has been reduced immensely and will continue to do so. The 10,000 devices C4 offers, how many does a typical user have, beyond what Homekit provides? Most people have 1-2 garage openers, 2-4 door locks, there is not a need for 10,000 products. The cost of hardware + dealer fees are not justifiable anymore, 10 years ago yes, but not now. I love my dealer/installer, he is a friend and a great guy, I have nothing against the dealers. I have an issue with the flawed model, installers on here saying "I don't have time to service when doing installs." that's why a centralized system makes more sense. Not waiting on a dealer to get back from vacation, not waiting on a dealer to have time. Most hardware will be obsolete, C4 should convert as much hardware to cloud as possible, and as much service to consumer facing vs dealer facing. Any argument against this is simply denial, and living in the past. If it is cheaper and easier for the consumer, why would a consumer oppose that? 19 minutes ago, eggzlot said: Being the stock price is trading near an all time high not sure why you point that out. The ceo selling stock has been debunked. It’s normal practice in corporate America. I’ve had c4 for 5 years. Never once had to call a dealer to just add a light switch. And I have about 50 switches in my house. I set them up 5 years ago and that’s been it. What is great is we have a free economy. Why post and rant? If you like HomeKit and it works for you go have at it. What is stopping you? I can give you a dozen things or more I can do but HomeKit can’t do. Maybe you don’t need those features. I do. Actually dealers are convenient no? I don’t fix my car. It’s more convenient to let a mechanic do it. I didn’t add a backup sump pump, it was more convenient to let a plumber do it. And most of the time it’s better to let my dealer do c4 programming even though I have HE and can do it. I have a full time job. When I get home I don’t want to sit and program and go on user forums to troubleshoot. And if I mess up I hear it from the wife!! I pay someone and it works. That’s the definition of convenience no? Stock price is where it was in 2014, have you seen what technology stocks have done since then? The CEO dumped $10M in stock last year alone, currently only owns 52k shares ($1.7M in value). He is triggering options at $6 and dumping at $33, do you think he's doing this expecting the stock to go up? Your car analogy is off, a better one would be if Car A required a service, and you had to: Call the dealer wait for availability arrange a time to be available do the service pay for service hope service was done correctly by an independent non-manufacturer (i.e. C4 dealer) or Car B, with the exact same service, you simply had to open an app and do an OTA download with manufacturer (i.e. Apple) You really telling me Car B is not the superior option? As for the last point, the fact you have to "get home, sit and program and go on user forums to troubleshoot," is simply a reflection of how flawed the C4 model is, Homekit does not require third party software, training and etc. Doesn't that bother you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, mod220 said: The value of C4 is diminishing, why can't you just admit this is completely true? It is still a superior system, but the margin of superiority has been reduced immensely and will continue to do so. The 10,000 devices C4 offers, how many does a typical user have, beyond what Homekit provides? Most people have 1-2 garage openers, 2-4 door locks, there is not a need for 10,000 products. The cost of hardware + dealer fees are not justifiable anymore, 10 years ago yes, but not now. I love my dealer/installer, he is a friend and a great guy, I have nothing against the dealers. I have an issue with the flawed model, installers on here saying "I don't have time to service when doing installs." that's why a centralized system makes more sense. Not waiting on a dealer to get back from vacation, not waiting on a dealer to have time. Most hardware will be obsolete, C4 should convert as much hardware to cloud as possible, and as much service to consumer facing vs dealer facing. Any argument against this is simply denial, and living in the past. If it is cheaper and easier for the consumer, why would a consumer oppose that? Stock price is where it was in 2014, have you seen what technology stocks have done since then? The CEO dumped $10M in stock last year alone, currently only owns 52k shares ($1.7M in value). He is triggering options at $6 and dumping at $33, do you think he's doing this expecting the stock to go up? Your car analogy is off, a better one would be if Car A required a service, and you had to: Call the dealer wait for availability arrange a time to be available do the service pay for service hope service was done correctly by an independent non-manufacturer (i.e. C4 dealer) or Car B, with the exact same service, you simply had to open an app and do an OTA download with manufacturer (i.e. Apple) You really telling me Car B is not the superior option? As for the last point, the fact you have to "get home, sit and program and go on user forums to troubleshoot," is simply a reflection of how flawed the C4 model is, Homekit does not require third party software, training and etc. Doesn't that bother you? No it doesn’t bother me at all. How would homekit handle pool control? Heated outdoor patio? Heated indoor floors? Centralized tv? Whole home audio? Or my typical example of when my housekeeper comes over. She enters 1 code on a door keypad. I get a text she arrived. Door unlocks. Alarm goes off. Music turns on in all rooms to her favorite channel. Lights turn on. When she leaves she presses 1 button, lock on the door. All doors lock. Alarm goes back on. Music turns off. Lights go off. And I get a text she left. And I get a text at 6pm to remind me to run the washing machine to clean the rags she left behind. Or how about when my doorbell rings and I’m watching any TV in the house I get a live video feed via PiP. Or how about when my alarm goes off my TV will turn on in the master bedroom is it’s between 9pm and 8am and put up a screen on the TV with all of my security cameras. please outline those use cases with the 2 pages of light switches, door locks, bulbs and hvac tstats with homekit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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