Kwikset locks - anyone have issues?

[eggzlot]

Anyone have any issues with the Kwikset C4 locks?

My front door lock is a pain.  Example from just today (though something like this happens it seems like every other month) - dog walker came over.  she puts her code into the kwikset keypad.  that should:

1) text me she is there
2) disable the alarm
3) create a variable i forget the name but call it custom variable and now that is set to true....

when she leaves she hits the lock button on the kwikset keypad and if that variable is true (which it is)
1) get a text she left
2) alarm goes back on
3) door locks regardless because she is pressing the lock button on the door to start this process
4) variable goes to false

so today - she does the usual to enter the house..i never got a text she was there.  instead i get a text saying alarm was going off, and then I get a call from the alarm company.  I looked on my cameras and yes it was the dog walker.  here is the odd parts:

1) never got the text she was there nor the text she left
2) in my locks/sensor page the alarm sensor I can see closed at 11:38, when she left.  the alarm sensor aka the door contact sensor that is hard wired to my DSC alarm panel.  the Kwikset lock itself last shows we locked it at 10:25pm - which last night yes we did open the door and close it at that time.

so somehow the kwikset lock accepted her code, and opened the door, but it didnt even register as an event in the log, didnt send out any texts, didnt shut off the alarm, etc.

Again this is not a once off, this happens often.  re: zigbee strength, this is the front entrance to my house in the main foyer, and there are 3 Control4 light switches almost within arms reach of the door.  so I would have to assume the signal/mesh is strong

This is my SECOND unit in this area because I had to RMA another one.  I have 2 other kwikset locks in the house, but way less programming on them as they are in the kitchen to go out to the patio and in the garage to enter via my basement, so it is basically just us manually open/closing those doors so the need for programming is minimal.

[d1amund]

Put a controller and create a mesh as close as possible to the lock and see what happens. Those locks suck at hopping off of other nodes. Run wispy or similar and make sure your 2.4 wireless band isn't squatting on top of your zigbee channel(s).

[RyanE]

I'd make sure your ZigBee channel is set to 25.

That's the only channel that's outside of WiFi's spectrum in the US.  It's fairly immune from other competing signals, unless you have an older baby monitor or wireless (non-wifi) video cameras or something else that broadcasts wideband in the 2.4GHz spectrum.

RyanE

 

[knowitall]

Batteries. I can't count how many issues with those damn locks have been solved by fresh batteries. Go get a brand new 4pk of duracell and replace them every 60 days. I used to recommended the energizer lithiums but after a debate here and som personal testing I'm back to using alkaline. Just gotta be fresh. I'll keep the old batteries and throw them in my minimag and it's good for a few weeks

[VINCELdUB]

+1

Happy Automating!

[NextGenAV]

2 hours ago, knowitall said:

Batteries. I can't count how many issues with those damn locks have been solved by fresh batteries. Go get a brand new 4pk of duracell and replace them every 60 days. I used to recommended the energizer lithiums but after a debate here and som personal testing I'm back to using alkaline. Just gotta be fresh. I'll keep the old batteries and throw them in my minimag and it's good for a few weeks

Thanks!, I was going to recommend a smart lock to a client, but I think I will tell him to forget about that. Every 60 days is way too short a time, I would be getting calls all the time about this. Are the Yale locks any better on battery life?

Thanks for the head up.

[knowitall]

60 days may be excessive, but locks in general operate better with full power batteries, c4 or not. 

 

I wouldn't go over 6mo on a set, especially if you have a lot of programming based on/off of it

[eggzlot]

The battery I suspect is the issue, just seems excessive and why not design the notifications to alert when the battery is too low to function for the device?

@d1amund I have a HC 250 as slave in the project and it is oh 15'-20' away from this location, plus as I mentioned I have 3 C4 light switches within arms reach.  Cant move a controller any closer just due to aesthetics, outlets, etc.

@RyanE I'll have my dealer look into the Zigbee Channel.  I know I set my Wifi channels for 2.4 and 5 bands based on the empty channels compared to what my neighbors were using, but I have a fairly big lot, so there was not a lot of signal issues with neighbors and their Wifi Channels.  I can have my dealer check my Zigbee channel, assuming I cannot do that with Composer HE?

@knowitall yeah I figured changing batteries would do the trick, in the past when I've had these or other lock issues, changing the battery resolves everything, but I test the batteries with a stand alone battery tester and they are always at least half full if not better, but never down to like 30% or anything.

The other issue I've had with the lock (and likely same technical issue making this happen) is I get false readings from time to time, it will say the lock is open when it is clearly closed.

Again I've RMA'd this particular lock.  but I have 2 other Kwikset locks which give me NO issues at all.  way less programming on them, but my basement door that my wife and I use every day to go to/from our garage to our cars to work has a kwikset lock.  So its used at least 4x a day.  It has programming on it so when we use our mini remotes to open the garage door the door to the house will unlock too.  that has NEVER failed.  its programming, its a Kwikset lock and never had an issue.  

I scratch my head sometimes....these tools are supposed to make life easier, not harder!

[msgreenf]

1 hour ago, knowitall said:

especially if you have a lot of programming based on/off of it

hmmm..here is an idea...

 

what if you have the lock just toggle a boolean instead of doing a lot of programming and then have all the programming in a script that is called from the boolean? would that have any impact on battery?

[Cyknight]

60 days? I'm changing batteries at my house after 6-9 months on the two I have!

[knowitall]

not sure what to tell you without seeing it. All I know is that locks act stupid if they don't have fresh batteries. Every service call I've ever had with them has been solved with fresh batteries. (Which is why I save the old ones for my flash light, remotes (not c4, OEM remotes), etc cus I know there is a lot of life left)

 

when I say programming I mean having the lock motor operate the lock. Auto lock after 5 min, unlock etc. I don't think they "sleep" as much as other nodes do. Pretty sure you can lower the polling freq but doubt that would save much battery. 

 

Regarding state, just make sure the deadbolt fully closes when the door is shut if it gets inhibited even the slightest it will locked but not read "locked" cus the bolt isn't all the way out. 

 

 

[RyanE]

Mine are also around 6 months, activated 4-6 times a day.  Both the Yale and the Kwikset were similar.

I'll second the 'make sure alignment is correct' suggestion on the deadbolt.  If it has to push the door further closed every time it locks, it's going to burn the batteries.  Just because the bolt is tapered doesn't mean you should count on it to close your door properly.

On the other hand, you may just have a bum lock.

RyanE

 

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, RyanE said:

Mine are also around 6 months, activated 4-6 times a day.  Both the Yale and the Kwikset were similar.

I'll second the 'make sure alignment is correct' suggestion on the deadbolt.  If it has to push the door further closed every time it locks, it's going to burn the batteries.  Just because the bolt is tapered doesn't mean you should count on it to close your door properly.

On the other hand, you may just have a bum lock.

RyanE

 

odds of 2 bum locks and 2 good locks?  id hope better than 50/50 from Kwikset.  I am thinking its a battery thing too.  I guess every 2-3 months I just need to put a reminder in my calendar to swap out the batteries.  

Thanks for everyone's input.  It is a shame that a device people interact with daily, and one that deals with security, is so flawed, and seems like others have had similar issues.

[chris.cytexone]

Low powered batteries used to give my Kwikset lock hell. Then I switched to Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA batteries. Never had an issue afterwards and the batteries last a little over a year with the lock being used at least 3 times a day.

Also, there's an Programming option for the Kwikset with the condition "Battery Is Low." Make sure to utilize that and have C4 send out an e-mail when that condition is met.

 

[eggzlot]

Just now, cdegaeta said:

Low powered batteries used to give my Kwikset lock hell. Then I switched to Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA batteries. Never had an issue afterwards and the batteries last a little over a year with the lock being used at least 3 times a day.

Also, there's an Programming option for the Kwikset with the condition "Battery Is Low." Make sure to utilize that and have C4 send out an e-mail when that condition is met.

 

funny you mention the C4 programming in the software itself on the lock....so when I first got the lock I set up the low battery notification - was 2 seconds in Composer HE so I could handle it.  Fast forward oh I dunno, 6-7 months, forget how long, but I am sitting at my work desk, and I get a text from C4, front door battery low.  ok, sounds good, will swap when I get home.  45 seconds later, I got the same text.  no joke, for the next 2 hours I got a text every 30-75 seconds.  I went home early on lunch break to put new batteries in there as I couldn't take the constant texts.  My dealer said he would set up some programming to alert me when the batteries are low, he used some variables so I should only get the text once a day.  Well, for 2+ years I never got a notice again, so the programming didn't work.  Before vacations/long weekends away I would try to remember to change the batteries so if some one had to enter when we werent home on our behalf they would not have issues (or so i crossed my fingers and hoped!).  Also when the battery gets low, we can hear the gears, they just sound different, so along with changing them manually before a long weekend/trip out of town, when we hear the gear kind of get slower and chug along we manually change the batteries too.

My new dealer, just today, altered some of that programming so I shouldn't get the repetitive texts of a low battery signal, but I guess I won't know for 6+ months, or until I can find some dead batteries from another device and pop it into the lock to test it out.

I am thinking just swap out the batteries every 2-3 months.  My iMac wireless keyboard and mouse go thru batteries like crazy, so I can take them out of the C4 lock and pop them into those devices.  Just curious as to why its only this lock, not my other 2, and I already RMA'd it.  So I would point to a network issue, but I should have good zigbee coverage in that area.

{Continue to scratch my head}

 

[chris.cytexone]

2 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

funny you mention the C4 programming in the software itself on the lock....so when I first got the lock I set up the low battery notification - was 2 seconds in Composer HE so I could handle it.  Fast forward oh I dunno, 6-7 months, forget how long, but I am sitting at my work desk, and I get a text from C4, front door battery low.  ok, sounds good, will swap when I get home.  45 seconds later, I got the same text.  no joke, for the next 2 hours I got a text every 30-75 seconds.  I went home early on lunch break to put new batteries in there as I couldn't take the constant texts.  My dealer said he would set up some programming to alert me when the batteries are low, he used some variables so I should only get the text once a day.  Well, for 2+ years I never got a notice again, so the programming didn't work.  Before vacations/long weekends away I would try to remember to change the batteries so if some one had to enter when we werent home on our behalf they would not have issues (or so i crossed my fingers and hoped!).  Also when the battery gets low, we can hear the gears, they just sound different, so along with changing them manually before a long weekend/trip out of town, when we hear the gear kind of get slower and chug along we manually change the batteries too.

My new dealer, just today, altered some of that programming so I shouldn't get the repetitive texts of a low battery signal, but I guess I won't know for 6+ months, or until I can find some dead batteries from another device and pop it into the lock to test it out.

I am thinking just swap out the batteries every 2-3 months.  My iMac wireless keyboard and mouse go thru batteries like crazy, so I can take them out of the C4 lock and pop them into those devices.  Just curious as to why its only this lock, not my other 2, and I already RMA'd it.  So I would point to a network issue, but I should have good zigbee coverage in that area.

{Continue to scratch my head}

 

Definitely try the Energizer Lithium batteries, it's a no-brainer and you'll actually end up saving money in the long run.

 

[eggzlot]

Just now, cdegaeta said:

Definitely try the Energizer Lithium batteries, it's a no-brainer and you'll actually end up saving money in the long run.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Energizer-Ultimate-Lithium-Size-Batteries/dp/B004EFT2BU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1484254245&sr=8-2&keywords=energizer+lithium+aa - those?

And any reason why the simple programming to get a low battery notice would cause me to get texts every 30-75 seconds?  Anyone else see that behavior?

[msgreenf]

1 minute ago, eggzlot said:

And any reason why the simple programming to get a low battery notice would cause me to get texts every 30-75 seconds?  Anyone else see that behavior?

yes, low battery alerts occur in c4 every time the lock checks into the mesh, so that is why a variable and programming is needed.  There is a KB doc that details how to set this up

[chris.cytexone]

Just now, eggzlot said:

https://www.amazon.com/Energizer-Ultimate-Lithium-Size-Batteries/dp/B004EFT2BU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1484254245&sr=8-2&keywords=energizer+lithium+aa - those?

And any reason why the simple programming to get a low battery notice would cause me to get texts every 30-75 seconds?  Anyone else see that behavior?

Yep, those are it!

Can't say I've ever ran into that, although I have a programming STOP after the command to send the email. I'll see if I can try a test run when I'm home and will let you know.

[eddy.trochez]

I use a schedule. Every day at 7:00am the system checks for battery status. If low, I get a notification. 

[msgreenf]

1 minute ago, eddy.trochez said:

I use a schedule. Every day at 7:00am the system checks for battery status. If low, I get a notification. 

Never thought of that...interesting approach.

[chris.cytexone]

29 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Never thought of that...interesting approach.

+1 to this, very smart idea!

[lippavisual]

Thats what I do as well, use scheduler.

Eggzlot, the lock in question is your main door, correct?  Therefore, it certainly gets used a lot more than your other ones, so of course the batteries will drain quicker.

My setup is about the same.  My main door lock goes through batteries about every 2-3 months, with usually at least 6-8 lock/unlock events happening daily, sometimes more .  The led on the lock will turn yellow when getting low and red when its super low.

My other lock on the side of house barely gets used and I probably swap those batteries about once a year.

[eggzlot]

Just now, lippavisual said:

Thats what I do as well, use scheduler.

Eggzlot, the lock in question is your main door, correct?  Therefore, it certainly gets used a lot more than your other ones, so of course the batteries will drain quicker.

My setup is about the same.  My main door lock goes through batteries about every 2-3 months, with usually at least 6-8 lock/unlock events happening daily, sometimes more .  The led on the lock will turn yellow when getting low and red when its super low.

My other lock on the side of house barely gets used and I probably swap those batteries about once a year.

Ironically it is my front door, but not used most often.  No kids.  Wife and I go to work every day using another door, one in our basement that goes to our garage, and that door has a kwikset lock too, no issues on that one, though far less programming on it.

Since this is the front door, we get packages there, so when we get home from work there may be a package, but that is just a manual unlock open the door, then manually lock from inside.  same thing when guests come over if we are home.  from a programming standpoint it is used 2x a week when our dog walker comes over which is 2x a week.  the garage one is used daily with programming - our card access mini remotes have a pattern of buttons we need to press to open the garage door and unlock that basement door with a kwikset lock.  never ever had an issue with that lock not opening, but that lock has gone out of sync 1-2x prior where it says open and its clearly closed.  but it never missed unlocking when the programming asked it to unlock.

 

I know the LED changes color on the lock, that isnt the situation right now, its still green for open and orange for locked.  when i remove the batteries i use a tester and i can see they are more than 50% full, but i still replace them anyways.  i got those lithium ones on order coming today via amazon so ill pop those in and replace them every 2-3 months.  ill add an extra step so the dog walker gets a text when everything executes, so she wont get the text if the alarm doesnt go off....and she knows if no text, call one of us to do it manually on our phones.

[lippavisual]

If getting used that small amount of times, then that would lead me to believe that something else is wrong here.

Hmm, maybe a bad zigbee chip then, as you say it is close to a ZAP, right?  I'd have a call with Kwikset to see if they can determine that.  A bad chip can certainly drain batteries more than usual and also wreak havoc on the zigbee network.

That would be my first step if the newer batteries don't help.