danzdad Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I have learned the hard way....managed switches are just incompatible with C4. Unfortunately, I can not seem to find a 48 port unmanaged gigabit switch? Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I have learned the hard way....managed switches are just incompatible with C4. Unfortunately, I can not seem to find a 48 port unmanaged gigabit switch? Any suggestions? http://www.planet.com.tw/en/product/product.php?id=48790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy.trochez Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 The Planet is a great switch. Let me know if you need a quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I'm running my system on the 24 port one. It's a boring appliance just like it should be. You don't know it's there apart from when you realize there are people complaining about switches because they keep getting in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d1amund Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I'm running my system on the 24 port one. It's a boring appliance just like it should be. You don't know it's there apart from when you realize there are people complaining about switches because they keep getting in the way. One of the best network related posts I've seen in a long while. Spread the word to others please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danzdad Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 why are incompatible? I assume any unmanaged switch will work like a managed switch in default settings? I have ubiquiti switches which I believe are defined as managed and they work fine with my C4 system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 why are incompatible? I assume any unmanaged switch will work like a managed switch in default settings? I have ubiquiti switches which I believe are defined as managed and they work fine with my C4 system... When you plug something into a corporate network it comes with details of ports that need to be open and packates that need to be managed. Home devices don't as a rule. But won't work unless you set the switch up correctly. Also multicast is still much used at home but blocked on a corporate setup, or at least managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_R3V Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 My home systems are using fully managed Cisco switches 3750X, mind you all the Control4 stuff is on a dedicated VLAN to keep it separate from everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuzzie2k Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Yup they do work on managed switches, I have a Layer2 swtich with VLANs and running my control4 fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 My home systems are using fully managed Cisco switches 3750X, mind you all the Control4 stuff is on a dedicated VLAN to keep it separate from everything else. I'm curious what the "everything else" is that you have on your network but that you keep from Control4? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 22 hours ago, ejn1 said: why are incompatible? I assume any unmanaged switch will work like a managed switch in default settings? I have ubiquiti switches which I believe are defined as managed and they work fine with my C4 system... Nobody really claimed it's incompatible - there's just (usually) no function for it (from a C4 system perspective), and can potentially cause issues. And no, just leaving a managed switch on default does not mean it's acting like a 'dumb' switch. That would (and does) very much depend on what the default settings are, ,which is certainly not consostent across brands, but not even across models for some brands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Cyknight said: Nobody really claimed it's incompatible - there's just (usually) no function for it (from a C4 system perspective), and can potentially cause issues. And no, just leaving a managed switch on default does not mean it's acting like a 'dumb' switch. That would (and does) very much depend on what the default settings are, ,which is certainly not consostent across brands, but not even across models for some brands. Got it. It was actually close to a claim . The switches that I have come across (tplink, ubiquiti) have worked fine out of the box and C4 actually seems to be marketing switches from Pakedge that are managed switches with priority VLAN routing so didn't want to leave it as they have zero value in a C4 system. Agree completely that if someone doesn't know what they are doing, then playing around with switch settings can cause problems so aligned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danzdad Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 Please forgive my overstatement (incompatible) arising as a result of my frustration. I am currently running Cisco managed switches which worked fine running my 70+ devices; until they didn't. I was frustrated by the time and money spent troubleshooting an install of new equipment which was, after much effort, tacked back to the switch. No matter how many functions we turned off, we could not make the switch work with certain new (mostly SIP) devices. On the other hand, when we removed the managed switch and replaced it with an old unmanaged 10/100 switch--problems solved. I could hire someone else with far deeper network knowledge that might solve the problem using the managed switches, but it seems more efficient (and likely less expensive) to replace the switches with unmanaged switches and thereby remove them forever as a potential variable in the system. So it is with humble apologies, I would like to restate my original statement as follows: ""I have learned the hard way.....managed switches can be a real headache for C4" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 38 minutes ago, danzdad said: Please forgive my overstatement (incompatible) arising as a result of my frustration No need to apologize - most of us got the idea I think. The rest of your post hits the nail on the head - it is much easier to NOT use managed switches. Add to that the general idea that C4 doesn't NEED a managed switch - gets little or no benefit from it - and yeah, there's no reason to spend the money on either the gear or the person to handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 9 hours ago, danzdad said: Please forgive my overstatement (incompatible) arising as a result of my frustration. I am currently running Cisco managed switches which worked fine running my 70+ devices; until they didn't. I was frustrated by the time and money spent troubleshooting an install of new equipment which was, after much effort, tacked back to the switch. No matter how many functions we turned off, we could not make the switch work with certain new (mostly SIP) devices. On the other hand, when we removed the managed switch and replaced it with an old unmanaged 10/100 switch--problems solved. I could hire someone else with far deeper network knowledge that might solve the problem using the managed switches, but it seems more efficient (and likely less expensive) to replace the switches with unmanaged switches and thereby remove them forever as a potential variable in the system. So it is with humble apologies, I would like to restate my original statement as follows: ""I have learned the hard way.....managed switches can be a real headache for C4" no need to apologize and wasn't addressing your post per se...I was really addressing the other post that added that "extra" comment to an otherwise helpful post. I just wanted to point out both can work and add value depending the user and system and C4 themselves seem to marketing advanced switches for more elaborate home networks. I think your point on SIP complications are very valid and need caution. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_R3V Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 On 1/17/2017 at 5:39 AM, ILoveC4 said: I'm curious what the "everything else" is that you have on your network but that you keep from Control4? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Sorry I should have explained further, I'm a network engineer who works from home (primarily in the healthcare space) so to ensure i'm as secure as possible I keep everything separate, my phones are isolated to one VLAN, security on another, Control4 on one, the network I use for work, network I use for personal, and a firewall to limit what can talk to each other etc. C4 devices basically leave SMB/SSH (with the password everyone knows) wide open to the world (internally, unless you are stupid enough to NAT it through), so as a just in case measure I like to keep the insecure stuff isolated as much as possible. Drives my remote dealer insane, but I've actually taught him a ton about network infrastructure so we trade back and forth, works out for me if I need something programmed / added to my system. Mind you when I DIY installed my parents system I used a standard unmanaged NetGear POE, (although that was mainly because I had it lying around) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funnyfarm299 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, James_R3V said: Sorry I should have explained further, I'm a network engineer who works from home (primarily in the healthcare space) so to ensure i'm as secure as possible I keep everything separate, my phones are isolated to one VLAN, security on another, Control4 on one, the network I use for work, network I use for personal, and a firewall to limit what can talk to each other etc. C4 devices basically leave SMB/SSH (with the password everyone knows) wide open to the world (internally, unless you are stupid enough to NAT it through), so as a just in case measure I like to keep the insecure stuff isolated as much as possible. Drives my remote dealer insane, but I've actually taught him a ton about network infrastructure so we trade back and forth, works out for me if I need something programmed / added to my system. Mind you when I DIY installed my parents system I used a standard unmanaged NetGear POE, (although that was mainly because I had it lying around) Managed switches aren't necessarily bad for a Control4 system, it's just that for every one person that knows how to configure one, there's 10 dealers who throw one in and then wonder why they can't use the app (hint: it's because they haven't set up inter-VLAN routing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_R3V Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Yep, once you tie L3 into it across VLAN's its fine. I can certainly see the challenges if you are not familiar with enterprise networking gear. On a comical note I was at Magnolia awhile back renewing my 4sight as my guy was out of town, they asked me about my setup... when I got to networking he chuckled and said they wouldn't touch it with a ten foot poll. I guess not many customers have Aironet's, ASA's and Catalyst's running the backbone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMG1199 Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I am using both a managed and unmanaged switch in my C4 system. I have all my core C4, Sonos, wall jacks going to an unmanaged switch and WAPs, Cameras, Touch Screens to a PoE managed switch. No porblems here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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