Programming with Advanced Lighting Scenes

[brucecampbell]

I need some help understanding how to best use the advanced lighting scenes.  Hopefully some of those in the know can lend some advice please.

When is a scene 'Active'? 

  - is the scene immediately active if it is invoked?

  - how does the tracking options influence when the scene is active?

example:

scene 1 = ramp lights to 90% over 3 seconds.

scene 1 (toggle) = ramp lights to 0% over 3 seconds

I currently have all my scenes use tracking 'at final %'

 

Practical use: motion sensed in the room

Option 1 ->

motion sensed:  activate scene 1 (is scene 1 active immediately, or after the 3 seconds it take to reach the setting of the scene?)

timer expires: deactivate scene 1(is scene 1 inactive immediately or after 3 seconds?; is scene 1(toggle) active immediately or only after 3 seconds?)

 

Option 2 ->

motion sensed:  activate scene 1 

timer expires: activate scene 1(toggle) (is scene 1 inactive immediately or after 3 seconds?; is scene 1(toggle) active immediately or only after 3 seconds?)

 

 

Cheers.

 

[VINCELdUB]

It is immediate. The control4 system sees the scene at final level instantly. This is what I recall. A quick way to test this would be to program something else to react when the scene is at final level. A different light in another room for example. 

 

When scene 1 at scene final level turn on light 2 

 

when scene 1(toggle) at scene final level turn off light 2

[brucecampbell]

Thanks, with what I have programmed so far, it does appear to be immediately seen as 'active'.

I'm not at home now, but did think running some tests as you suggest will be useful.

Hoping to find some documentation or advice on what the other tracking options might be used for?  

[VINCELdUB]

 

 

 

Article

 

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Advanced Lighting Scenes - Tracking

This is a guide on Advanced Lighting Scenes that with an emphasis on tracking. This is important so the LED’s track properly, and Toggle Scenes work, and Current State is correct, and Programming works

Affected Software:  Control4 OS 2.6+

Tracking: Tracking is the single most important feature of the Advanced Lighting Scene to automate smart lighting for your customer. In this example I will show a bedroom with 2 lights, a main room light and a perimeter can light. The customer wants the lights to operate a certain way and see feedback from the scene on a keypad.

Action: First, Make sure the Advanced Lighting Scene Agent is added in the Agents tab, then click new and Name your Lighting Scene. Add the loads for this scene and now it is time to decide on levels for dimmers and what switches are going to do and delays needed.


Example of an Advanced Lighting Scene
 



In this example 2 loads exist for this scene, no other programming currently configured.



The Highlighted areas show what has been changed with this scene. Toggle Colors, and Toggle Scene, and Load Tracking have been set properly. When using Create default, the software will make a copy of the scene and label it the same with (toggle) at the end and this toggle scene will default all loads to off. This scene when activated will turn on both lights, bed light to 30% and stay there, bed cans to 25% over 3 seconds and then 50% 10 seconds later over 5 seconds.




Connection to a Keypad:






In this screen the keypad is set with 3 2 high buttons, programming is only applied to the first one. The highlighted areas show what has been changed to be able to connect to a scene and follow the set led colors for toggle.



Under Connections Control/AV find the keypad and connect the button to the scene, it will have this toggle scene and another ending with toggle(toggle) if create default was used.  Connect the correct scene and test it.


Description of Options:

 

Scene Tracking –

All Loads: All loads tracking options must be true to show Active

If the bed light was turned on, the scene would be inactive because not all loads are on at the set tracking level 

Any Load: Any 1 load tracking, only 1 option must be true to show Active

If the bed light was turned on, the scene would be active, may not follow the desired effect when pressing the scene toggle button again (customer wants the can lights on)

 

Load Tracking –

Switch Options 

Is Off: True if the load is OFF

Is On: True if the load is ON

Don’t Track: This load does not affect tracking. 

At Scene Final Level: Only true if % or state matches exact conditions 

Dimmer Options (Same options as above)

On at %: True if the load is on at XX%

Is On: True if the load is => 1%

 

Scene Tracking –

All Loads: All loads tracking options must be true to show Active

If the bed light was turned on, the scene would be inactive because not all loads are on at the set tracking level 

Any Load: Any 1 load tracking, only 1 option must be true to show Active

If the bed light was turned on, the scene would be active, may not follow the desired effect when pressing the scene toggle button again (customer wants the can lights on)
 

Load Tracking –

Switch Options 

Is Off: True if the load is OFF

Is On: True if the load is ON

Don’t Track: This load does not affect tracking. 

At Scene Final Level: Only true if % or state matches exact conditions 

Dimmer Options (Same options as above)

On at %: True if the load is on at XX%

Is On: True if the load is => 1%

 

 

 

[dcovach]

 You can also track when any one of the loads are at final, on (100%), any level, or off (0%). Not just when all are at final, on or off.

You can only toggle a scene if you have a 2nd scene to be the toggled scene. 

A scene is only active or inactice when the tracking conditions have been met.

Keep in mind that an all off scene will appear as active if you are tracking at scene final to be 0% or off. It sounds counter intuitive but all the tracking conditions will have been met and will be active.  Test the scene with a nav and flip lights on and off. Watch the behavior or the status in the advanced lighting scene you're testing and compare.

[brucecampbell]

Great info, thanks for the detail.

I'm running 2.5.2, so some of these advanced lighting features aren't available to me.

however, if I'm reading this right;

I have my tracking set to 'At Scene Final Level'

my scene takes 3 seconds to ramp to the final level.

Why is my scene showing as active immediately?

Is it because invoking a scene will set it active immediately?

[dcovach]

Send a snapshot of the scene

[brucecampbell]

Can do when I'm home later tonight.

Cheers.

 

[dcovach]

 Invoking a scene to active forces the scene to activate even if all the tracking conditions are already met.  After making changes, make sure all loads in this scene are off and refresh navs before you test. I can't remember if its necessary to do this with 2.5.2. 

[brucecampbell]

4 minutes ago, dcovach said:

 Invoking a scene to active forces the scene to activate even if all the tracking conditions are already met.  

This is perfect. This will mean my programming will work how I need it to.

I will be able to accurately check if the change in state/level of a light is due to a scene being activated or some other form such as a button click or other interface used.

Gives me a very smooth approach to turning lights on and off using motion sensors and allowing 'overrides'.

 

 

[brucecampbell]

4 hours ago, dcovach said:

Send a snapshot of the scene

This programming is working for me.

It relies on a scene being 'Active' as soon as it is invoked.  If the scene was not active until the 3 second ramp up/down completed, then it would not work.

The idea is, the motion sensor (along with a timer) turn the lights on and off.  If any interface is used to control these two lights, the sensor and timer are deactivated until the lights are manually turned off again.

 

 

 

 

 

[VegardK]

Anyone has experienced that the scene isn't tracking? No scenes is tracking for me, but I cannot see why it shouldn't.

[Matt Lowe]

48 minutes ago, VegardK said:

Anyone has experienced that the scene isn't tracking? No scenes is tracking for me, but I cannot see why it shouldn't.

are these control4 dimmers or another brand?

[Cyknight]

First question would be what lighting devices are you using - noting that not nearly all 3rd party lighting tracks properly.

[VegardK]

It's not Control4 dimmers. It's actually a new HomeSeer/Z-wave integration. Not complete yet, but dimming work. 

Any idea on why it's not tracking, or what to do for it to work better? 

[Cyknight]

In order to use tracking, the driver requires the appropriate code, and the device needs to be able to send the required commands.

Exactly what that entails I don't claim to know (especially without digging into it) but perhaps other can chime in (assuming you are attempting to develop the driver that is).

[Adidaswood]

is there a way this works when if I use "Programmed" instead of "Follow Connection"  As I never had my dealer bind any scenes to a button, I've always done it through programming.

I'm guessing No.

[Cyknight]

13 minutes ago, Adidaswood said:

is there a way this works when if I use "Programmed" instead of "Follow Connection"  As I never had my dealer bind any scenes to a button, I've always done it through programming.

I'm guessing No.

Do what?

[Adidaswood]

sorry I should have been more clear.  I assumed we all agree we are talking about lighting scene tracking and that you would know exactly what I mean by my jibberish...

I'm just saying I always use programming to change the LED colors but that gets really cumbersome after a while trying to remember all the different colors and timing about when they should be that color or not.

so I'm simply asking, if I press a button and it is programmed to run a scene.  Can that tracking be implemented and utilized, or does that absolutely require the button be bound to the scene?  

I hope that is more clear, cause I'm not sure I can explain it any better.  I've probably severely overcomplicated a simple thing here.  I'm definitely sure I'm confused.

[Cyknight]

AHAH! Much clearer.

13 minutes ago, Adidaswood said:

so I'm simply asking, if I press a button and it is programmed to run a scene.  Can that tracking be implemented and utilized, or does that absolutely require the button be bound to the scene?

Scene tracking is ALWAYS functioning (assuming of course whatever lighting you have allows tracking) - so any programming triggered on scene states will work regardless of how a scene gets to the used state:

 

Scenes have 3 triggers:

INVOKE: Triggers when any programming actually CALLS for the scene. Meaning that unless you actually call for the scene (be it by a bound button, from a GUI or via programming) programming off of that event will trigger.

 

becomes ACTIVE or INACTIVE triggers WHENEVER that scene reaches that state.

BE CAREFUL when programming off of this! Why? Let's create a lighting scene 'basement off' - turning all lights in the basement off, tracked on all devices being at the scene final level.

Now let's program on that scene becoming active to turn off all a/v in the basement. Great right? if you press that button at the top of the stairs, all TVs and music go off as well.

Now imagine a nice sunny day, the basement is flooded with light. You fell like watching a movie in your theatre. You sit down, select your movie and start it....but upon starting a movie the theatre lights turn off except for the star ceiling (which is not trackeable light), a lovely feature...and no other lights in the basement were turned on....and your theatre shuts off. Now imagine me coming in on a cloudy day trying to recreate this issue...

[Adidaswood]

ok I think I'm following.

so if the scene is bound to the button, the led will change just based on the loads reaching the designated state in the scene's properties.  no further programming required

if the scene is called in programming you would still need to change the LED based on the triggers.

right now I'm just trying to get status on a few scenes on a button LEDs, as I'm just starting to think more about living with scenes instead of individual loads.  So much like an LED might follow the load on a single light.  I want my LED to follow the scene on or off status.  and I'm trying to decide if I should bind the scenes to the buttons.  

If I'm way off let me know.

[VegardK]

In my case the problem is a bug with the HomeSeeer Dimmer driver. After a reboot I have to go into composer and manually set a random value to the tracking lights. once done the tracking works. Its weird, but we will find it out eventually.

[Dr. Venkman]

 

16 hours ago, Adidaswood said:

so if the scene is bound to the button, the led will change just based on the loads reaching the designated state in the scene's properties.  no further programming required

Yes, so long as you've configured the LED to "Follow Connection" in the keypad's properties (the LED Behavior drop down).

16 hours ago, Adidaswood said:

if the scene is called in programming you would still need to change the LED based on the triggers.

You mean if the scene is not bound to the button, but there is programming on the button to activate/deactivate the scene?  Yes, you'll need to set the LED to programmed and then create the programming to have the LED do what you want.

16 hours ago, Adidaswood said:

right now I'm just trying to get status on a few scenes on a button LEDs, as I'm just starting to think more about living with scenes instead of individual loads.  So much like an LED might follow the load on a single light.  I want my LED to follow the scene on or off status.  and I'm trying to decide if I should bind the scenes to the buttons.  

I would vote strongly for binding the scenes to the buttons (and having the LED's follow the connection).

• You don't have to do any programming on the button at all.
• Press and hold functionality is automatic for dimming
• The ramp rates for your scenes stay intact (though this may be the case if programmed to turn on/off, I'm not sure).
• I believe that you can also press the button once to begin the ramp up/down, and then press it again to stop it (similar to the functionality on a dimmer).
• You don't have to do any LED programming.
• It probably gives a bit quicker response, and it's probably a little more reliable.

The downside is that you need your dealer to add it (also, you can't see it in composer, so keeping the keypad buttons named properly or documenting the connections is important).  I've made my peace with that, and there are a few workarounds to let you do a few things without bothering your dealer just for a couple of connections:

• If you just want to move buttons around from within a single keypad, you can reconfigure the keypad in composer and it will move the connections from one button to another.
• If you want to remove a connection, you can do the same, but just not map the connection you want to remove over to the new configuration
• When I added some keypads and didn't know exactly how I wanted them set up, I created a few empty scenes and had my dealer bind them to the keypad buttons.  That let me tinker with the underlying scenes over time, and the binding was already there.
• I have also programmed a couple temporarily, and just waited until the next time my dealer was in the system to have him make the connection.

[Adidaswood]

That is good information.  One of the things I am concerned about is if i'll loose control of that dimming if I need a manual adjustment.

I guess at this point all I can do is try it.  This has been a very educational thread.

[LollerAgent]

On 5/9/2018 at 11:16 AM, Dr. Venkman said:

I would vote strongly for binding the scenes to the buttons (and having the LED's follow the connection).

• You don't have to do any programming on the button at all.
• Press and hold functionality is automatic for dimming
• The ramp rates for your scenes stay intact (though this may be the case if programmed to turn on/off, I'm not sure).
• I believe that you can also press the button once to begin the ramp up/down, and then press it again to stop it (similar to the functionality on a dimmer).
• You don't have to do any LED programming.
• It probably gives a bit quicker response, and it's probably a little more reliable.

Sorry for resurrecting such an old thread.

I have a keypad where I bind a scene to each button.  When I press and hold any of the buttons that are bound to a scene, based on your description, should I expect the lights in that scene to dim?  This isn't happening for me.  Instead, the lights that are attached to the load of this keypad (which are outside of this scene) come on, and then all other lights in the room come on to 100%.  I'm honestly not sure what is happening here.  It would be nice if I could somehow use the same button that activated the scene to dim the scene as well.