knowitall Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 As it's been mentioned before, be happy with what you have. RTI, crestron, savant have nothing like HE and you want to talk about being tied to a dealer? Yikes. Im done being trolled again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcovach Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 23 minutes ago, Larry said: Don't dealers have minimum annual order requirements for hardware? I think that's the essential difference. I'm thinking of a software-only person, and not licensed to do original installs. Maybe the independent auto mechanic garage vs. new-car-dealer in-house repair shop is the best analogy. You buy the new car from the dealer, and maybe stay with his repair shop, maybe not. @Larry, why don't you find a local dealer and apply for a job? You would be a huge asset! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Larry said: Ah, you are forgetting about people who have just retired, bought their new retirement home, have time, programming skills, and a desire to spend less money than before (except on the initial house purchase, since it's their last, a big spurge on fully-decked-out C4 seems like the right way to go!). This demographic is a wave, and DIY is a perfect way for retirees to fill the now-empty days. The development here is 56 town homes, age-restricted to 55+, and the builder pushed C4 big-time. It started out strong, I was one of the first, but fizzled out as the dealer (sub-contractor to the builder) sent out techs who could not program well. Worse, the builder also pushed Bose gear (I didn't bite), and there was some problem with Bose/C4 integration (I have no knowledge re this) so many homeowners who went "all in" were quite upset. When the dealer missed a bunch of appointments I solved problems for many of my neighbors, requiring them to buy HE, and gleaning info from this community (which is wonderful!). If I could have bought PRO, and been a "certified" independent consultant, I bet I could have solved them all. For no money -- we help each other here. Many of the newer buyers are skipping C4 ... so what did C4 achieve? Sure some homeowners found another C4 dealer, some now use remote dealers, but the builder would not allow any of them in to the sales office, nor could they install anything pre-close, so purchasers hearing the horror stories just skipped it. The builder is using a different dealer in his next big project, but that doesn't help here. The essential flaw in the C4 dealer-model is the requirement that you have one dealer registered at a time, with notification to C4, and dealers therefore know how you are playing it. Compare, for example, to Hunter Douglass window treatments (expensive, whole-house, automated etc.). Hunter Douglass tightly controls the dealer network, and some products are only available to top-tier ("Gallery") dealers. These high-end products cannot be DIY'd ... so this is a good analogy, Of course just like C4 I can solicit independent bids from dealers before I buy, but unlike C4 I can have two different dealer/installers actually do the work, and compare, without exposing my hand to the dealers. In fact, one is doing the basement, and one the second floor, and I will compare quality and workmanship and responsiveness before picking one to do the all-important main floor. Both dealers are getting paid, and in fact I told each that they were only getting one floor (without revealing the name of the other dealer, but they can probably guess), so there is nothing under-handed about this. And the Hunter Douglass automation controller talks to everything installed, so the system remains fully integrated despite the two different dealers. The fact that I have this flexibility is what made me choose Hunter Douglass instead of someone else! This is a lesson C4 needs to learn. They need to face up to the fact that dealer programming quality can vary over time, and they can't monitor it or guarantee it works ... they can insist the dealer be trained, but that's quite low-power when it comes to ensuring quality. The free-enterprise market is the answer, as it often is in these cases -- develop a trained and certified network of independent C4 homeowner-assist programmers who are armed with PRO. Dealers will initially complain loudly, but in the end they will realize that, just like independent garage mechanics vs. the car-dealer's in-house shop, it is far better this way. More sales, happier customers. In fact, I bet some dealers will sub-contract the programming out to these independents! Seems obvious. I don't think most home owners have time to trial 2 people to install them pick a winner to finish off. Most people likely solicit bids and ask for references. Maybe in retirement you have that time but most don't. Also you may be fortunate but as you stated earlier c4 is missing the DIY retirement crowd. That's very very small and likely not not their radar. Most people in their retirement age today are not tech savvy. And most downsize to a more modests house with less bells and whistles. It's great you are set up differently but not sure retirement DIY people is really a hot market. C4 and any company worth its salt does market research to hone in on their client base and the market. People 2 years hammered no composer pro for users and said the stock price reflected it. Amazing how no one points out the 28/share stock these days when trying to say c4 is doomed. Most analysts rank it as a buy. As someone else mentioned find a dealer who need programming help. Get training and composer through that company and have some part time work for your retirement. It's very possible. Most dealers would rather focus on sales and hardware and not daily calls for driver installs and firmware updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blub Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 As it's been mentioned before, be happy with what you have. RTI, crestron, savant have nothing like HE and you want to talk about being tied to a dealer? Yikes. Im done being trolled again. This is, if course, correct - ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave w Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I think the most messed up part with the current dealer model is many dealers allow untrained self-taught technicians/employees who really have zero programming experience to use their credentials for Pro. I've come across several who had pretty much no idea what they were doing beyond dragging and dropping some drivers and creating bindings. You could tell they never went through any training and were using their bosses login. The lutron RA2 model is the best. Same outcome more flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Dave w said: untrained self-taught technicians/employees who really have zero programming experience to use their credentials for Pro Agreed! That drags everyone down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvis Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 On 9/16/2017 at 12:23 PM, C4tune said: My point is that if you love control4, but it seems like you can't afford it there's a chance you can get it done for less than a dealers quote. Assuming you already own your TV, receiver, speakers, and other devices... you can get a real EA-1 and SR-260 remote on eBay for $300 new, from an online dealer for $600. I'd recommend buying 4sight/Composer HE combo from an remote integrator on here, so you are at about $400 $700. Follow the integrator's advice, wire it up and then let him setup the initial programming. You'll probably end up with a legitimate starter system for less than $500 $1000 or so, complete with Composer HE and remote access. Not completely DIY, but darn close. This all assumes you must have Control4. (I'd go elsewhere for pure DIY) [Edited to show prices I could find today.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Control4 biggest problem is some dealers are terrible. If it was not for this forum, I would think Control4 was over priced and a gimmick. Thanks to dealers on this forum my system is great fun to play with and HE lets me do nearly everything. The new drivers for Sonos, Hue and Blue Iris allow you to add drivers via HE - The rename driver makes life easy. When I buy a new TV or Amp - Yes its frustrating but for $100 someone on this forum will set up for me straight away. Overall great system and wife loves it - So its a winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Slider Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Elvis, I've got to admit, that was pretty damn funny! I hope you took advantage of all of those prices from someone/anyone. That's a hell of a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 $300 for an EA1 and a sr260 even being used seems extraordinarily cheap this one is only $150 LMAO. Verified to turn on sold as is... so are you a gambling man? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Control4-C4-EA1-Home-Automation-controller-/372072974908?hash=item56a1470a3c:g:ok8AAOSwYVBZtt7f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Slider Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 lol . . . we're half way there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave w Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 If you can't afford a full blown system I'll let you in on a trick I used to get my whole house automated for free courtesy of C4.... instead of buying a system I invested the equivalent amount into C4 stock last year when the new systems were announced. 9 months later the stock price has now nearly tripled. Which also seems to indicate that their business model is working, as frustrating as it is for DIY types like ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvis Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 2 hours ago, GT Slider said: Elvis, I've got to admit, that was pretty damn funny! I hope you took advantage of all of those prices from someone/anyone. That's a hell of a deal. Frankly, I don't know what I was looking at when I wrote that. Hell of a deal, no, it's non-existent apparently. Sorry. Edited the original reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvis Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Dave w said: 9 months later the stock price has now nearly tripled. Tap, tap, tap, click. Click, ********* , click, tap, tap, tap, tap, click. (Kinda of what it sounded like when I put in a buy order on schwab.com) That'll put a stop to this trend, in fact probably guarantees a reversal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Stock Results not guaranteed. RyanE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 we made a few quid ($) out of the price too - However bailed out to early - came at $20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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