zaphod Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Today Amazon announced a bunch of new Echo devices and new functionality for Alexa. You can now set up "routines" like good morning, good night, etc that can control multiple devices. Does that make it somewhat of an integrated smarthome controller? The Echo plus now has Zigbee support, but it isn't clear what that means. Discuss... wappinghigh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I dont feel that alexa is taking any of control4's consumer marketshare. Maybe coming in on the DIY type samsung smartthings, wink's customers. At the moment comparing alexa to control4 is like a tesla vs a rollerskate Elvis and dcovach 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 I agree that it has a long way to go but I think it is of interest to the DIY folks who want Smarthome control of lights, doors, outlet switches, etc. Alexa and Apple HomeKit can do some of this now and they can do it more elegantly in some ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I ordered the alarm clock today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 No. Nest hasn't become a C4 competitor. Homekit hasn't become a C4 competitor. Smartthings hasn't become a C4 competitor. Alexa won't be a C4 competitor. None of these large companies want to invest in the type of dealer channel and deep knowledge that REAL home automation requires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3D - Benn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 It's the same as Sonos IMO. It's getting more people into (and aware of) home automation (Even if in a round about way) which is only ultimately a good thing for the industry. I've countless customers who have branched out to a "real" AV install through buying a plug and go multi room audio bit of kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 I think in some ways some of these other devices are C4 competitors, at least in that their presence means that C4 sells less hardware. I have a pretty big Control4 user with dozens of dimmers and lights but in some places in my house I use Hue bulbs. And for AV control I prefer Logitech Harmony devices. The alternative is using C4 remotes and/or C4 controllers. So you can say that Logitech Harmony isn't a competitor of C4 but it does take potential revenue away from C4. And folks on the low end may be happy to use a myriad of devices and allow HomeKit or Alexa or Logitech to provide a unified interface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave w Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 3 hours ago, msgreenf said: I ordered the alarm clock today Great minds think alike....ordered a white one. Supplement yes, competitor, not even close. Patching together smart devices with a hub is a far cry from home automation. As are smart remotes.... msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 I hope that you will be able to set the alarm clock in a way that it doesn't double as a night light. I hate most modern clock radios for this reason. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperman Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I think they are in the early stages of being competitors. Will they be able to do everything control4 with a dealer do - probably not. But how many people actually need that functionality. Having the lights turn on and off at a certain time is automation and they can do that. And if someone buys an echo instead of a control4 then it is competition. Having a dealer to come out and do stuff all the time is a pain in the butt. If you can just go to youtube and watch a video on how to do something it is much cheaper and easier. If you could have 90% of the functionality for 10% of the cost that would be a pretty good trade off. Not saying any of those numbers are valid, just saying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Africa C4 user Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Definitely a great companion to C4rather than a competition... Hopefully all this development will make them a better companion to C4 (e.g. by allowing C4 to identify which Echo sends it input). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoskiguy Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 One of the new devices the "Echo Plus" does reportedly contain a "Smart Home Hub" and contains a zigbee radio in it From their page: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075RWFCHB Alexa can control your compatible smart lights, thermostats, locks, garage doors, sprinklers, and more. Set up devices from Philips Hue, GE, Kwikset, and others without the need for a separate hub. Just ask Alexa to discover your connected devices. Right now they are a compliment, they have the budget, user base, and desire to be tightly integrated to the home. I don't think they are a competitor yet, but I think of the whole list of c4 killers above - Amazon has the most potential. If nothing else they have the largest ecosystem of all the other platforms. All the other platforms boast about being the smarthome platform of the future. Amazon is quietly doing it in a non-threatening way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 All depends how sonos and Alexa fit together. If it works and works well, next step is Alexa in TVs, etc. She is already in Fire Tv and it works well. So it will be "Alexa turn on TV set to channel Sky Sports 1" That then triggers amp etc Can see it coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 51 minutes ago, Gary Leeds UK said: All depends how sonos and Alexa fit together. If it works and works well, next step is Alexa in TVs, etc. She is already in Fire Tv and it works well. So it will be "Alexa turn on TV set to channel Sky Sports 1" That then triggers amp etc Can see it coming based on how junky the Alexa skill v1 for heos is I don't expect much... but then a the same time the Dish skill is pretty cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvis Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 It depends on what it will do. It might become a gateway drug into HA hardware depending on what it works with, and how easy that hardware is for the consumer to install. Amazon is a big enough company with mega-resources, so nothing they do would surprise me anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 On 9/27/2017 at 5:03 PM, thegreatheed said: None of these large companies want to invest in the type of dealer channel and deep knowledge that REAL home automation requires. You know how the dealers on here like to say the users on this forum are not typical? Well same goes for the dealers on here. All the dealers in my area are audio/video guys that could just as easily use Harmony. I would like to know how many C4 setups are single room home theater setups with just IR control. I would bet over half. That said, C4 isn't going after the low end market; they are going after Crestrons residential market. C4 will lose a few people to Amazon that were on the fence but not enough to change their strategy. sonic30101 and Elvis 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Any jobs with a sources shared between rooms, more than 6 rooms, or duplicates of IR gear in excess of 2 since the harmony hubs only have 2 ports are out. Not including the logistic nightmares of actually making it actually work with a 8-15 device limit. I like the harmonys to a degree, i set one up for my inlaws for their family room and the avrs zone2 for the deck. But it was a bitch to get it so turning the room off didnt turn both zones off because it just isnt set up for that. I even contacted their tech support to get their take and they said to go kick rocks and it cannot ve done so i figured out a work around and then emailed them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 On 28/09/2017 at 7:03 AM, thegreatheed said: No. Nest hasn't become a C4 competitor. Homekit hasn't become a C4 competitor. Smartthings hasn't become a C4 competitor. Alexa won't be a C4 competitor. None of these large companies want to invest in the type of dealer channel and deep knowledge that REAL home automation requires. The question was is it becoming. Not has it become... and ...."at the low end".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 13 hours ago, sonic30101 said: Any jobs with a sources shared between rooms, more than 6 rooms,... I think the 6 room limit has been relaxed as I noticed recently that you can have more than six remotes/hubs tied to your account. Certainly it used to be six and that was a binding limit for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I was looking at the Echo spot and figuring how this could maybe replace a touchscreen for intercom interactions. The limitation is you could not verbally talk to who is at the door, but using IFTTT or other potential skills if the door rings you could see who is at least at the door. It is a cheap way to get that visual into certain rooms in a house. I know the touchscreen allows to pick sources on TVs, lights, scenes, etc. But $999 vs $129, and with people using verbal cues to control c4 with Alexa vs interacting with a touch screen I wonder how this may impact some sales? I have a home rennovation project pending for this fall or maybe spring and I wonder if I would invest in more touchscreens or look at this route as a potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjsuryan Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I already see Control4 going more high end with their acquisitions of Pakedge and Triad , but also addressing the entry level with the new CA-1, but will they ever try to outright compete with DIY, probably not. It takes economics of scale to produce products like Alexa for the masses. Alexa has a long way to go to get to the level of sophistication of Control4 as a home controller, It is primarily a single interface (voice) and it is less versatile, Voice is a great interface for some functions but not so good for others and can be quite cumbersome at times. Plus most of the brands that Alexa has skills for are new startups that may or may not be in business in a year or two. I have found that the accuracy of Alexa to be poor at times and doing it's processing in the cloud adds to latency as well. Josh Ai is a far superior voice product for those that want voice to really work, but is more expensive. As the adage goes, You get what you pay for. If a customer wants HA at low end prices then they are DIYers that will be willing to put up with the warts that those products have and for clients that want it to work and have a level of performance that they can't get from DIY then C4 and a professional will be the correct choice. Just like a person that buys a Mercedes and uses the service center or someone that buys a KIA and changes their own oil, or going to a fast food restaurant compared to 5 star dining. sonic30101 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissglobalsolutions Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 On 9/29/2017 at 11:10 PM, zaphod said: I think the 6 room limit has been relaxed as I noticed recently that you can have more than six remotes/hubs tied to your account. Certainly it used to be six and that was a binding limit for me. Yes they have become more relaxed and offering 15 rooms per account as far as I know plus you can set-up a pro account to manage multiple account and more easily change settings remotely. But if been frustrated several times with the limited functionality of the harmony remotes and that they don't offer proper control of software over IP. I've installed probably over 30 harmony remotes but am now looking into something more robust and my friend suggested Control4. What would be a good Control4 hub to buy first to use mainly as testing and proof of concept? I want to get on hands experience fist control4 first before I offer solutions with it to my clients. Any recommendation is appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 ..Zaphod, clearly Alexa is a long term potential competitor to Control4....at the low end... and that's where these things start.. at the low end..... Control4 was once a competitor at the low end with Crestron ... right folks?? ya'll remember that 10 years ago?? For anybody not to see this? Well I'd be gobsmacked if the long term C4 users and dealers around here didn't realise that Alexa could at least become a potential competitor.... I mean they have 5,000 programmers working on the smarts of Alexa right? How many people does Control4 have working specifically on it's smarts? Rock on C4 W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 ^ Not that this is saying hugeness and the sheer number of software engineers (Amazon) necessarily means more "nimbleness" and more "coolness" and a faster release of it's tech developments etc.. It's just if Control4 is way smaller, why doesn't it demonstrate sometimes with it's tech, that it can't be a bit more nimble and bolder sometimes? But I "get it" now with this platform. Its very conservative and it's great as a backbone.. And with it's superb dealer network to lend a hand, It excels at that... Just IMHO and my 2c... Rock on C4! W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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