rf9000 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Guys, building a a new home and looking to install C4. I’m trying to save where I can. Instead of buying the Ea-5 controller, can I get by with an HC-800 with HC-250s at any TV location where I want to do distributed video? Also, someone me had told me there was an older HC800 and a newer HC800 that was faster, is this true? Is this also true with the HC250s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Guys, building a a new home and looking to install C4. I’m trying to save where I can. Instead of buying the Ea-5 controller, can I get by with an HC-800 with HC-250s at any TV location where I want to do distributed video? Also, someone me had told me there was an older HC800 and a newer HC800 that was faster, is this true? Is this also true with the HC250s?Don't cheap out. 800 is basically end of life. Start right. You are just going to end rebuying in 2-3 years. Plus you won't find a new 800Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Would you go buy an iPhone 6 today? Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Thanks, but the reason is to save money like I said in the original post. If I can buy a EA-5 for same price r as HC800 I would go for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcovach Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, rf9000 said: Guys, building a a new home and looking to install C4. I’m trying to save where I can. Instead of buying the Ea-5 controller, can I get by with an HC-800 with HC-250s at any TV location where I want to do distributed video? Also, someone me had told me there was an older HC800 and a newer HC800 that was faster, is this true? Is this also true with the HC250s? You can get by without an EA5 but an HC800 won't be future proof as it was introduced quite a while ago. At some point, through OS updates, it will have limitations but its currently still a very powerful controller. HC800's and HC250's may or may not be licenced. The last few characters in the model number will reveal that. BL-1 is licenced while BL is not. Those controllers will distribute audio, through other controllers, matrix or proper audio setup but they don't distribute video. The only native video that they distribute is the C4 navigator to other controllers in the project or through an actual video matrix but not recommended for navigator distribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, rf9000 said: Thanks, but the reason is to save money like I said in the original post. If I can buy a EA-5 for same price r as HC800 I would go for it but that's not possible. Can you buy an iphone x for the same price as an iPhone 6? I mean the fact is 800 is old and near end of life. If you buy an 800 now and can't get updates in 2 more years you are going to blame control4. The 800 was released in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Are you saying that Control 4 forces you to buy new equipment every five years? I know that most members on here think I should buy everything new and buy all the newest equipment. But as stated, I'm building a very large home and don't have a lot in the budget for the automation. Plus I'm doing 24 zones of audio so that will cost a good sum right there. So, I was thinking about buying a used HC800 as my controller and multiple HC250s for any location where I want distributed video (if that is even needed or possible). For exterior security cameras and buy whichever are best compatible with C4. Then buy C4 light switches where I want to control any lighting. Probably have to get the older previous generation switches because the new ones are super expensive even though I do like their look better. I will buy new a Doorbird doorbell and compatible Zigbee door locks for any door I want to control with the system. For amplifiers, I will buy the previous generation used amps, for the same reason I mentioned above that I can't buy the Triads. For any touch screens, I will buy used previous 7" Infinity Edge screens with camera. I will also buy 4-5 Alexa stations to control most things via voice. So yes, it will be used or previous regeneration equipment behind the scenes, but in the "front of the house" and for functionality it will be just fine and be more than most people have in my area. What do you think? Any issues you see? Any speed issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, rf9000 said: Are you saying that Control 4 forces you to buy new equipment every five years? I know that most members on here think I should buy everything new and buy all the newest equipment. But as stated, I'm building a very large home and don't have a lot in the budget for the automation. Plus I'm doing 24 zones of audio so that will cost a good sum right there. So, I was thinking about buying a used HC800 as my controller and multiple HC250s for any location where I want distributed video (if that is even needed or possible). For exterior security cameras and buy whichever are best compatible with C4. Then buy C4 light switches where I want to control any lighting. Probably have to get the older previous generation switches because the new ones are super expensive even though I do like their look better. I will buy new a Doorbird doorbell and compatible Zigbee door locks for any door I want to control with the system. For amplifiers, I will buy the previous generation used amps, for the same reason I mentioned above that I can't buy the Triads. For any touch screens, I will buy used previous 7" Infinity Edge screens with camera. I will also buy 4-5 Alexa stations to control most things via voice. So yes, it will be used or previous regeneration equipment behind the scenes, but in the "front of the house" and for functionality it will be just fine and be more than most people have in my area. What do you think? Any issues you see? Any speed issues? Control4 never makes you buy new hardware, but at somepoint new OS updates and features aren't available to old hardware due to their capacity. Just like iOS - Apple never makes you buy a new iPhone but eventually they stop supporting your old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Without knowing your audio sources, I don't think you want an 800 to coordinate 24 zones of audio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 And generally after 8 years, which is an INCREDIBLE amount of time for technology, the controls need hardware updates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Ok. I have an HC800 in my current home running 24 zones of audio using Extra Vegetables driver and Russound amps. Works great. Anyways, it was suggested that I get an EA-3 for now that would be as powerful if not more powerful than the HC800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcovach Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 You will be taking a chance on old equipment as you have no idea how long those will last and how abused they are. There's some corners not worth cutting. You will need to consider how your house is pre-wired first. A properly configured network will determine how reliable your C4 system will run. The older gen switches are hard to find, especially new. Some dealers can't get them anymore. Even if they can they're not much cheaper than gen3 and don't handle lighting as well as the new gen. You'll need a video matrix for distribution and a combination of audio matrix for 24 zones. Money saved on old equipment can lead to a lot of regrets. An EA5 controller is the way to go for a large system. Yours is probably considered medium but it doesn't hurt to "oversize" on equipment. Nobody is trying to sell you anything here. Just give advise. If you're not prepared for some honest and recommended advice, don't ask any questions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Buy a used 800 that has been running 24/7 for something around 5 years..just don't be mad in 2 years or less if it dies or stops getting updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Thanks, I'm definitely looking for advice. I apologize if comments seemed charged, I'm not at all. I just got responses back saying I should buy all new when I originally posted that I'm trying to save money. I know I can buy all new, anyone can do that. Just looking for suggestions to a mixture of new and used. I think I would go for a EA-3 for the main controller. Then use previous generation amplifiers since I need four of them. Switches are tough. Almost thought of going with Lutron RadioRA2 and integrate it with C4. Mainly because the new C4 switches are crazy expensive and I would probably need like 30 to 40 of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 24 zones of audio and only 40 switches seems low? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rf9000 Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 What do mean? I will have that along with 4 to 5 locations of distributed video, six+ cameras, Alexas, integrated security, door locks, integrated HVAC, various sensors for garage doors, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, rf9000 said: What do mean? I will have that along with 4 to 5 locations of distributed video, six+ cameras, Alexas, integrated security, door locks, integrated HVAC, various sensors for garage doors, etc. I guess just thinking about whole home - which is what I expect 24 zones of audio to be, that just seems like a low switch count to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokead Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Thanks, I'm definitely looking for advice. I apologize if comments seemed charged, I'm not at all. I just got responses back saying I should buy all new when I originally posted that I'm trying to save money. I know I can buy all new, anyone can do that. Just looking for suggestions to a mixture of new and used. I think I would go for a EA-3 for the main controller. Then use previous generation amplifiers since I need four of them. Switches are tough. Almost thought of going with Lutron RadioRA2 and integrate it with C4. Mainly because the new C4 switches are crazy expensive and I would probably need like 30 to 40 of themI started off the same way as you. I bought new for audio distribution (11 zones)with at the time a Hc300, HC1000, speaker points and C4 amp. I added to the project over a couple of years with used HC200's and a mix of new and used switches (which by the way are more expensive today than 5 years ago), about 27. As I expanded, I replaced the 1000 with a HC800, and the 200's with a new EA1 and a used HC250 ($80 on eBay). This approach has allowed me to keep up with the latest OS, and manage my budget while I upgrade. The only challenge has been the speaker points. They don't allow to update the audio. I didn't do distributed video: I only have 3 TV's. I got rid of a screen, as I use iPad and phones. May not be the best but it works for me. Biggest lesson I learned, find a good dealer (most likely on this forum), support him by not buying everything used, get a good network set up with potential for expansion (extra drops), get HE, and follow this forum: there's some amazing people and recommendations hereSent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wattsup Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Another way to triim the budget is pre wire for 24 audio zones but maybe only start with 8? You can add the other hardware/zones as budget allows - same with cameras,lighting and video. The most important thing is start with a good network and and a good dealer - the rest you can build up over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 If you start with an 8 zone audio matrix then need to upgrade later to a 24 you will be hurting yourself. Better to go with the 24 and an 8 zone amp leaving space in the racks for more amps later on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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