Moved into new home - need advice on home automation replacement

[pzentner]

We moved into a house, which had a Control4 system installed, but the previous owner decided to be "not nice" and took everything with him. So I want to replace the system basically. 

 

The house is prewired and has the following setup:

Patio: 2 speakers

Living Room:

- 7.1 surround speakers

- TV

Game Room:

- 5.1 surround speakers

- TV

- a few gaming systems

Office

- 5.1 surround speakers 

- TV

 

sources

 - 2 cable boxes (live TV on two tvs)

- blueray player

- 2 firetv

- pandora, etc

I want to be able to play audio from different sources in different rooms, but do not need each room to be able to play a different one at the same time. up to 3 is enough (if I know that correctly, that's a difference between ea3 and 5?)

eventually, I want to control a few light switches, integrate a DSC security system, and maybe some outlets.

Questions are now:

- which controller would I need

- do I need a hdmi matrix for the video sources or rather which one? getting confused with the different in/out

- does it make sense to even think of having the gaming systems go through control4 or just directly to the tv?

- do I need special surround amps or anything with the system or can I use my existing amps that I used before without any automation system?

i am currently mainly trying to figure out what i would need, a budget for it, and then decide what to go with, how and who to have it done (local vs remote), etc.

 

any help is greatly appreciated

 

Thank you

[DawnGordon]

I'm a Control4 dealer in Jupiter Florida.

Call me tomorrow at 561-745-6186.

 

[sonic30101]

Welcome to the forum.

On 4/7/2018 at 10:27 AM, pzentner said:

I want to be able to play audio from different sources in different rooms, but do not need each room to be able to play a different one at the same time. up to 3 is enough (if I know that correctly, that's a difference between ea3 and 5?)

EA5 is ideal but may not be necessary, you would probably use the EA3 for the on screen navigator and an EA1 in the other video zones for IR/serial, zigbee gateway for remotes/lights/thermostats and on screen display

 

On 4/7/2018 at 10:27 AM, pzentner said:

- do I need a hdmi matrix for the video sources or rather which one? getting confused with the different in/out

If you want to share the video sources throughout all zones you will need an hdmi matrix. The number or in/outs needs to be discussed with a dealer. Maybe a 6X4, maybe Just add power or videostorm (cant game on this one due to latency) IP distribution which will be more flexible to let you do any number of desired inputs and outputs compared to a traditional matrix which tends to be 4x4, 6x4, 8x8, 10x10 so you may end up paying for additional outputs you dont need going this route. 

On 4/7/2018 at 10:27 AM, pzentner said:

- does it make sense to even think of having the gaming systems go through control4 or just directly to the tv?

Control4 can control them if they are distributed or local in a specific room. The question is what is the distance and obstructions between the rooms you want to play them in. I usually get 30-50ft with xbox ones and ps3/4 so I can share them between our family room, theater and kids room. And if games are purchased online you dont have to go put a disc in the tray

On 4/7/2018 at 10:27 AM, pzentner said:

- do I need special surround amps or anything with the system or can I use my existing amps that I used before without any automation system?

Lets get a list of the TVs and amps you have and that will determine if everything will play nice or help us see what age and specs they have

 

Also can read into alexa and google home integration, Composer HE to be able to do some programing and tweaking yourself. We can help a bit but having someone come out and take a look at the space, wiring in place and discuss your expectations on usage will be valuable.

[pzentner]

Thank you for the info and valuable tips. I have looked into the JustAddPower equipment and it certainly seems to be extremely flexible.

I was looking at a rackmount transmitter to connect things like cable box and blue ray player, and with receivers for the TVs, it doesn't necessarily seem to be cheaper than a matrix, but would allow easier expansion and I already have cat6 prewired to all tvs from a central av closet anyway. 

together with an ea3, it might fit in the equation. to get on screen display/navigation, would this also need a jus transmitter (or whatever else I would be going with)? Also, I am assuming that I would need a jus transmitter for each fire tv/apple TV or whatever else.

With the xbox, I might be able to get this integrated into the system, but the distance is kind of pushing it, so not sure, if it makes sense to even try.

I guess, I'll check a few of the local dealers (Juniper, FL is like 3 hours away) to get someone to physically look at the system and then see what can be done and get some ideas. Is it reasonable to expect a dealer to share the design of a system with me in detail to understand what I'd be getting and validate that I am not being overcharged for things that I wouldn't need?

I definitely would like to see, if I can do some of the programming myself and also already saw some of the threads here about Alexa integration, seems like the way to go. My kids will probably screw with her all the time lol

[sonic30101]

7 hours ago, pzentner said:

together with an ea3, it might fit in the equation. to get on screen display/navigation, would this also need a jus transmitter (or whatever else I would be going with)? Also, I am assuming that I would need a jus transmitter for each fire tv/apple TV or whatever else.

Typically you go with an EA3 or 5 for a system this size that runs the program and usually lives in the rack, controls the equipment you need in there and connect to one of the AVRs for a media or family room, then there are EA1s out at the TV locations to provide zigbee gateways/on screen navigators/IR/serial connections to devices in the rooms

Yes you will need a transmitter for each device you want to distribute, if you dont distribute the game system, you could also look into videostorm which is a Just Add Power competitor 

 

7 hours ago, pzentner said:

I definitely would like to see, if I can do some of the programming myself and also already saw some of the threads here about Alexa integration, seems like the way to go. My kids will probably screw with her all the time lol

 

Yes, the dealer can put the devices in the program, make all the necessary connections and set up the alexa driver. Then load 1 or 2 commands that you can reference back to and from there you can play to your hearts content with your own custom triggers. I would recommend the epic systems alexa driver over the native service because it is more powerful IMO. You will also be able to program favorite channels, timers, custom buttons, scheduled events, lighting scenes, if you get a security system integrated you can have control4 react when doors open or motion occurs, etc.

[Home Theater Advisors]

Is it reasonable to expect a dealer to share the design of a system with me in detail to understand what I'd be getting and validate that I am not being overcharged for things that I wouldn't need?

If you pay for their time and expertise, sure. I wouldn’t expect it for free. Best case scenario, you pay an upfront design fee which is then partially or fully credited back to the project if you move forward with the dealer.

[pzentner]

This is great and thanks everyone for taking your time to educate me. 

Here are some results from my research after getting all the info:

- purchase ea 3 most likely 

- purchase new surround receivers (my old one I have is not reliable and doesn't support control over ip)

- leave game consoles hooked up to tv

now the variables:

- go with audio matrix, but which one

- just add power is probably as expensive as hdmi matrix when all said and done

- but videostorm sounds interesting from a price perspective. problem is that there are no 4k transmitters yet, but then, I also dont have any 4k sources yet

-with video storm i would use fire TV as receiver on TV and also use those to do local Netflix, etc. control

- possibly upgrade to quantum fios, seems like those are ip controllable boxes (or is this still not the case and it's only their proprietary control mechanism?). 

- then all my equipment is up controllable, which makes it a bit easier than relying on IR

in future, go with all the automation part, for now get av under control.

does this make sense so far or am I completely wrong somewhere? not sure with the video storm vs hdmi matrix, but seems like it could make sense

[Pounce]

25 minutes ago, pzentner said:

does this make sense so far or am I completely wrong somewhere? not sure with the video storm vs hdmi matrix, but seems like it could make sense

I'm in the same place. With VS they recommend nVidia Shield's over Fire TV. More horsepower etc. Having local streaming could make some sense.

Both VS and JAP can be distributed rather than centralized. That can give some flexibility. I'm considering local equipment in one of my media rooms. I can then put some of the gear on the network with encoders to use elsewhere if needed.

I want tiling with my upgrade. VS offers the most flexibility since it's tiling is software based. No appliance. JAP has an appliance for tiling, but offers some attractive features like being able to overlay two sources with transparency. 

I like the JAP image pull features that makes it possible to see what's playing on the transmitters from a T3 or web page etc. I'd use that to see what the kids are watching.

To be honest I may end up with both in some combination. I want to keep my security cameras on a separate wired network. I want to tile the cameras so I may feed a VS source from a nVidia Shield to a JAP encoder.

[pzentner]

14 minutes ago, Pounce said:

I'm in the same place. With VS they recommend nVidia Shield's over Fire TV. More horsepower etc. Having local streaming could make some sense.

I'm not sure how much difference there is in the quality, I was trying to find a way around having to have multiple streaming devices and then having to have encoders for them (or are they actually capable to be "encoderless ip streaming devices? And adding nVidia also adds to the cost, even if it's only a little.

17 minutes ago, Pounce said:

To be honest I may end up with both in some combination. I want to keep my security cameras on a separate wired network. I want to tile the cameras so I may feed a VS source from a nVidia Shield to a JAP encoder.

now that's creative. just wondering how much quality loss you will wind up with. wont ge a problem just looking at a security camera, but with other things it could.

I like the idea to spy on the kids, but my wife already didn't let me implant the GPS trackers... she might be up for the TV thing.

That actually brings me to a completely different idea - while you cannot really block specific content from sources for the kids (eg you cant control what TV channel they're watching - or can you?), at least you can disable any sources from reaching them based on times, I'd think - should be possible to setup with c4, no? aka a different way of parental controls 

[Pounce]

With VS you have the vVidia Shield as the decoder. It can also then do everything a Shield can do. VS recommends the Shield over other devices at the moment. The benefit of the Shield over their upcoming dedicated decoder is you can do things like Amazon Prime Video. Of course you can also use a Shield as a source and run it into an encoder. That gets you the ability to sync across zones for something like Netflix. I have a floor that is an open floor plan where I have 4 TVs so this is important for me.

Yes, I don't think I will see much problem with encoding output from a Shield for security cameras. I do have some 4k cameras, but they will be scaled in a tile anyway. It would be a fun experiment to see what sort of artifacts you might get from multiple steps of encoding/decoding.

I can't answer on parental controls. I'm skeptical you can really control it well enough that its both doing its job and still easy to use (for all family members).