brucecampbell Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 I have around 30 dimmers - mostly older ELV models, installed about 9 years ago. A couple a starting to fail - by way of the bulbs now strobe gently when the dimmer is on (which is really annoying..) Anyhow, I'm replacing them and wondering if the load on the dimmer will directly affect the life span of the dimmer? Ie: These dimmers are running 50W halogen bulbs - one runs 7 bulbs (350W), the other runs 9 bulbs (450W) By changing to LED am I going to increase the life of the dimmer? I also note, the failing dimmers are in banks of three dimmers together - all running halogen. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 ....Don't think ELV dimmers are appropriate for Halogen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Interesting. Are these 12 or 24 volt fixtures? If they’re low voltage, given the age and the wattage I would think those would be magnetic transformers. If they’re low voltage, pay close attention the the voltage when replacing bulbs. Don’t put a 12 volt bulb on a 24 volt transformer, or the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucecampbell Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 55 minutes ago, Cyknight said: ....Don't think ELV dimmers are appropriate for Halogen.... What makes you say that? These are ELV dimmers made for the 240V market. They look and feel the same as the original LDZ101 (I think that is the code) Not sure of all the ins and outs, but that they say ELV on the unit.... They are running on 240V and most are running circuits with 12V 50W halogen - (each bulb has it's own electronic transformer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucecampbell Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 35 minutes ago, Brownbatsbreath said: Interesting. Are these 12 or 24 volt fixtures? If they’re low voltage, given the age and the wattage I would think those would be magnetic transformers. If they’re low voltage, pay close attention the the voltage when replacing bulbs. Don’t put a 12 volt bulb on a 24 volt transformer, or the other way around. I get the feeling when I say 'ELV dimmer', you are picturing a different device to what I am referring to. I do recall a posting I made many years back to which someone mentioned there are different ELV devices for the different markets. Mine are simply dimmers - I think the improvement from the LDZ dimmer was the addition of a neutral wire which helped prevent buzzing when used in conjunction with halogens on electric transformers..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucecampbell Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 More importantly, does anyone have an answer to my actual question: Does the load on a dimmer have a direct impact on the expected life span? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, brucecampbell said: These are ELV dimmers made for the 240V market. Doesn't ELV mean Extra Low Voltage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucecampbell Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Pounce said: Doesn't ELV mean Extra Low Voltage? I believe so, but the label on the dimmer says 'ELV Dimmer' and it is for 240V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Weird. Got a photo of the label? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucecampbell Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 The code is C4-TDMI2-Z and it is called 'C4 ELV Dimmer' as opposed to the earlier model LDZ-101-240 which is called the 'C4 MLV Dimmer' Perhaps the naming convention here in NZ is different to other parts of the world...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucecampbell Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Pounce said: Weird. Got a photo of the label? Sorry, not at home to get a pic. - can do tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 https://www.control4.com/files/dealers/documentation/200-00104_RevB_ ELV 220 Wireless Dimmer Install_User_Guide_Web.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucecampbell Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 That's the one. Max 800W (unless ganged) so will drawing 350w vs 49w make a difference to the dimmers life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 They are reverse phase. Halogens want forward phase. Potentially, this has caused a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucecampbell Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 Right, so I should look at moving to LED anyway... do dimmable LED's work well on reverse phase? I have a ton of phillips 7w LED dimmable throughout the house all working seemingly ok...... Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 They run off of line voltage, but are meant to power electronic transformers down the line. That’s why I’m just suggesting you make sure these fixtures don’t involve a transformer somewhere down the line, and making sure if that’s the case you’re using the correct bulbs for the voltage. The fact they’re failing in banks makes *seem* unlikely they’re failing on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucecampbell Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 55 minutes ago, Brownbatsbreath said: They run off of line voltage, but are meant to power electronic transformers down the line. That’s why I’m just suggesting you make sure these fixtures don’t involve a transformer somewhere down the line, and making sure if that’s the case you’re using the correct bulbs for the voltage. The fact they’re failing in banks makes *seem* unlikely they’re failing on their own. Sorry - I don't quite understand this. You say these dimmers are meant for powering electronic transformers down the line - but then you say to make sure the fixtures don't involve a transformer down the line...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 My apologies. I simply mean to say make sure of your fixture/transformer specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucecampbell Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 Cool, thanks for the advice. All the lamps are using their own 12V electronic transformers and all bulbs are currently 12V 50W halogen. I will change these to 12V 7W LED's - hopefully prior to installing the replacement dimmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, brucecampbell said: All the lamps are using their own 12V electronic transformers That changes things. Likely the correct switches. Sounds like they are simply dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 ELV is Electronic Low Voltage (vs MLV = Magnetic Low Voltage) The T-DIM is NOT an updated model of the original dimmer, it's a different product altogether. 45 minutes ago, brucecampbell said: All the lamps are using their own 12V electronic transformers Ah, but if they are MLV style transformers they are NOT the correct type of dimmer to use. 2 hours ago, Pounce said: They are reverse phase. Halogens want forward phase. Potentially, this has caused a problem. Doesn't mean anything if they are on transformers 2 hours ago, brucecampbell said: More importantly, does anyone have an answer to my actual question: Does the load on a dimmer have a direct impact on the expected life span? Cheers. Obviously, though the impact is minimal. HOWEVER!!!! Just because LEDs use less voltage doesn't mean they cause less 'stress' on a dimmer. Indeed, dimmer have DIFFERENT max wattage ratings based on different types of bulbs. If you replace 20W bulbs with 60w bulbs of the same type, there logically is more 'wear and tear' - but as long as you are not pushing the max wattage, that impact is minimal. If you replace a 60w incandescent bulb with the equivalent lumens LED....it's likely going to cause MORE 'stress' because LEDs have an MUCH higher in-rush current. In the end, it's not going to make a difference as such in your case because the device your are dimming is the transformer - not the bulb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucecampbell Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 Great, thanks for all the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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