Dealer Discounting

[darin]

First time post, hopefully in the correct spot! We are building a house and plan to use a considerable amount of C4 gear. 10 (or 11) lighting controllers, 18 audio zones with 52 speakers, and I'm sure more as it evolves. Is there a "standard" discounting off MSRP that is usually given for equipment? I have a local dealer that has quoted me a discount, but I feel like there's still considerable markup left.

The MSRP on just the lighting controllers, panels and switches is already 25k. I haven't even started pricing out the audio system! Am I crazy to hope for 35-40% off? 

Thanks!                               

[alanchow]

Just now, darin said:

First time post, hopefully in the correct spot! We are building a house and plan to use a considerable amount of C4 gear. 10 (or 11) lighting controllers, 18 audio zones with 52 speakers, and I'm sure more as it evolves. Is there a "standard" discounting off MSRP that is usually given for equipment? I have a local dealer that has quoted me a discount, but I feel like there's still considerable markup left.

The MSRP on just the lighting controllers, panels and switches is already 25k. I haven't even started pricing out the audio system! Am I crazy to hope for 35-40% off? 

Thanks!                               

There is no set discount.  The dealer has their margin and if he wants to give you a discount by eating into his margin then it is upto him.

Having said that it is important (especially for large systems) to get a good dealer with a considerable amount of experience.  As a bad dealer will not design or program the system correctly.

Also your expectations are extremely high.  You're pretty much telling them to give you their money though i can't comment on exactly what the dealer margin is on products.

[eggzlot]

6 hours ago, darin said:

First time post, hopefully in the correct spot! We are building a house and plan to use a considerable amount of C4 gear. 10 (or 11) lighting controllers, 18 audio zones with 52 speakers, and I'm sure more as it evolves. Is there a "standard" discounting off MSRP that is usually given for equipment? I have a local dealer that has quoted me a discount, but I feel like there's still considerable markup left.

The MSRP on just the lighting controllers, panels and switches is already 25k. I haven't even started pricing out the audio system! Am I crazy to hope for 35-40% off? 

Thanks!                               

Please take this with a grain of salt, I am not trying to be rude or hostile - so first off, welcome to the boards!!  Now if you are building a house with 18 audio zones I am sure its a fairly big house, so you or your spouse or both likely make a good income.  Do you give your customers 40%?  Are you asking your window guy for an additional 40% off your windows?  HVAC guy giving you 40%  your compressors - with 18 audio zones must be a big house so I am sure you are buying more than 1 compressor. If you were buying 18 pairs of speakers from Best Buy would they give you 40% off?   Examples abound - but these dealers need to buy the equipment, some even keep some in storage.  They have insurance to pay, they have employees and benefits to pay, then they need to actually make a living.  I think if you want 40% off C4 gear you will be disappointed.  Maybe a small % off c4 gear and a drop more off the other hardware, but then I always wonder, they give you the discount there but could inflate their labor rates or something.  If you are concerned about being taken for a ride, get 2-3 quotes. 

[MonsterIT]

Yes you are

7 hours ago, darin said:

 Am I crazy to hope for 35-40% off? 

Thanks!                               

[DawnGordon]

You'll be lucky to get 10-15% off. That's a huge system, and as Alan mentioned, you want a very experienced dealer to design, program and install.

Where are you located?

[livitup]

One thing that helped me through this process in my own house (15 zones of audio, 8 zones of distributed 4k video, locks, lights, theater, etc.) was to consider the effort as buying a single finished end product, rather than a bunch of components and labor.

When you buy a new (or used) car, you pay the price for the car, negotiated sometimes, but you don't haggle over the cost of the engine or the seats.
When you repair a car, you get an itemized list of all the parts and labor, and you can see the new starter cost 'x' and the new battery 'y' and you can comparison shop/haggle/research to see if you got screwed.

I wanted to treat this process like a car repair.  I wanted to know the cost of each speaker, the EA-5, the IO extender, the light switches.  How much discount are they giving me? Can I get it cheaper from another dealer or online (gasp!)? 

Instead my dealer gave me a contract:

• We will install 15 pairs of xyz speaker, one in each of the following rooms: ...
• We will install C4 dimmers and light switches to automate lighting in the following locations: ...
• We will install xyz projector, xyz screen, xyz AVR, etc. in the theater.
• We will install xyz locks on the following doors: ...

The contract came with a total price.  The car buying experience.  I was able to look at the cost, look at what I would achieve for that cost from terms of "I can listen to music now" rather than "I will have DT6.5R speakers installed".  I was able to ask myself "would I be happy paying 'X' to achieve all the things this system will provide for me?"

In the end, I said "Yes, I will be happy."  I stroked a check, and never looked back.  My wife now wants to know when I'm going to get the next round of touch panels installed.  We love our system.

I totally get your perspective.  I am an IT professional who has never paid anyone to do work like this before...ever.  I built my own home theater from scratch with my own two hands in our first house.  I still assemble PCs when I want a new computer at home.  Actually, that's probably another good analogy.  Think of this as walking into the store and buying an off the shelf PC, rather than scouring Pricewatch for the best deal on CPUs.  The process is somewhat opaque, which frustrates type A personalities like myself, but if you can step back and enjoy it, you will enjoy it.

Of course this is all free advice on the Internet, worth exactly what you paid for it.  Feel free to tell me to shove it.

[darin]

42 minutes ago, DawnGordon said:

You'll be lucky to get 10-15% off. That's a huge system, and as Alan mentioned, you want a very experienced dealer to design, program and install.

Where are you located?

We are in the NW. Our issue is we didn't plan for this as part of the original build, and when you are building a house extra funds are hard to round up! 

3 minutes ago, livitup said:

  The process is somewhat opaque, which frustrates type A personalities like myself, but if you can step back and enjoy it, you will enjoy it.

This is a perfect summary! I am building the house myself, so it's really hard to turn the keys over to someone else who just says "X". I break everything down and compare it to see where the best value / function are. I know I will love all of this, and there's a local dealer that will have no problem taking a check and turning it into something amazing. Just have to balance how much funding is really going to that "amazing".

[livitup]

12 minutes ago, darin said:

This is a perfect summary! I am building the house myself, so it's really hard to turn the keys over to someone else who just says "X". I break everything down and compare it to see where the best value / function are. I know I will love all of this, and there's a local dealer that will have no problem taking a check and turning it into something amazing. Just have to balance how much funding is really going to that "amazing".

Ah, are you acting as GC, or literally building it yourself?

If the former, then are you haggling with the plumbers over the cost of each T-joint, or are you paying the contractor to do what you contract them to do?  It's a loaded question - I hope it's the second answer, and if so, consider this just another sub.  If the plumbers cost too much, then you substitute cheaper fixtures in the guest bathroom.  If C4 is too much maybe you switch to 7" touch screens instead of 10" or "better" quality speakers instead of "best" quality.

If you're literally building it yourself, well, then in this case you're screwed.  You can't shop for this like it's plumbing components.  It's going to cost what it's going to cost.  If you're unhappy with the cost, reduce the scope.

Tough reality, but it is the reality in industries where the supply chain is restricted access.  You're free to cobble together your own system using components available to consumers like Hue, Insteon, WiMo, etc.  My business partner did exactly that, and he's happy with his ability to tell Google Assistant to turn on/off his lights.  He can't understand why it's important to me to have unified control and automation of all my devices in one system. He doesn't understand why I'd pay triple the cost of his Nest doorbell for a DS2. To each their own.

[AK1]

You sound like the kind of homeowner who is highly engaged with every nuance of your construction process. If this also applies to your home automation and specifically your Control4 system, then I suggest you work with a dealer in the NW (that includes my company), that typically deals with this profile of homeowner.  This applies even more so if you have somewhat of a technical background, as you will gain a lot of knowledge and "ownership" of your system by working with a dealer who caters to this profile. Rather than being that kind of client client who just wants to get it done and have the best price possible of $X without understanding the decision making processes involved with the system design and delivery. 

[Pounce]

Run the cable you will need and run extra. Plan speaker locations. Finish your house and then add equipment. Over engineer your cable needs. This way you can focus on getting your house done and when you get the cash you can get the latest and greatest.

[twmoonly]

56 minutes ago, Pounce said:

Run the cable you will need and run extra. Plan speaker locations. Finish your house and then add equipment. Over engineer your cable needs. This way you can focus on getting your house done and when you get the cash you can get the latest and greatest.

Run the cable and conduit chases as needed for the future then install equipment as funds are available

[darin]

Thanks all for the input!