wappinghigh Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 ^ LOL this is why I like this little forum and keep coming back on occasions.. An innocent dealer stumbles onto "the wrong" C4forums.. (Not even he/she knows about these permission settings...their clients contacted the dealer!...) ...and the dealer then asks what seems to be an innocuous harmless question about a tiny component of our projects.. Cy drops a hint... And KBOOM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Critical updates don't add features or modify functionality typically. I'm guessing you are a fan of David Icke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Pounce said: Critical updates don't add features or modify functionality typically. I'm guessing you are a fan of David Icke... LOLz... No conspiracy here my friend just a cult... Quick Lock and snapshot the thread!!! Before it's deleted!!!! IMO!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 So you don't think David Icke is running a cult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, Pounce said: Critical updates don't add features or modify functionality typically. Haven't you ever asked yourself why it's you paying the cost of testing the "added features" or to "modify functionality"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 No. I'm the software business and understand how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, Pounce said: No. I'm the software business and understand how it works. ah ha!!! A cult member! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 More of a pragmatist, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, wappinghigh said: LOL well I'll be darned...!! Nobody has ever told me that. My dealer, you, anyone here on C4 forums, and I've been around here nearly 10 years! So why has there been all the secrecy? Well I'll be darned. WAP never bothered to read what he clicks....for nearly 10 years. Such shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 18 minutes ago, Pounce said: More of a pragmatist, really. Well being the pragmatist I know you are, don't you realise that this clearly one of the main ways C4 stays in business and how it has chosen to compete with the likes of Google Amazon and Apple..? That they effectively cost shift their R&D onto the end user? Rather than do more in house? And that the side byproduct is this model is it obviously keeps the dealer base happy...? It keeps their foot in the end customer door (so to speak) The current C4 firmware upgrade model is the linch pin of all this... I'm not saying it's bad.. (I want dealers and C4 to stay in business!) I'm just saying end users of the product need to understand it is they who are paying for it all.... I actually believe they should have two clear firmware releases. An obvious beta then the proper one.. BOTH upgradeable by the end user... If the end user wants to try the beta.. but it needs further testing. Great! - for the dealer!!! That's awesome ....they get to truck roll... Either way stop this charade. We are not stupid! C4 needs to become more transparent and give us the choice. IMO!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, Cyknight said: Well I'll be darned. WAP never bothered to read what he clicks....for nearly 10 years. Such shock. don't be an ...... the original poster had no idea (and he was in the dealership) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, wappinghigh said: That they effectively cost shift their R&D onto the end user? Wow the brilliance. Yep, no testing is done by C4 or anyone else at all. Apple, Google Samsung...they all test everything to the T before it's released. NEver an issue. Not a one. Same with computer games. 1 minute ago, wappinghigh said: C4 needs to become more transparent and give us the choice. You DO have that choice. NO-ONE foces you to update, get the latest devices on day one. You're spouting BS again, to try and turn the conversation to the exact same point you always do. Go cry in a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: don't be an ...... the original poster had no idea (and he was in the dealership) ORiginal OP asked a perfectly valid question. You don't read the agreement and check boxes (which get updated at least once a year by the way upon logging in to your account. There is zero defense in OP post concerning your own lack of effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Nice kind words Cy... Sure I know other vendors test everything on their end users.. Why do you always think I am stupid? The difference however is stark There is nothing in the upgrade model of Google, Apple, Samsung etc add infinitum .. that allows the possibility for the end user to actually have to pay directly for the upgrade ... Yeah I'm the stupid one..... I get it Cheerio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Yehh real nice.. Just give end users the choice... That's all I'm saying. I say that and its like I'm the devil reincarnated Nice cult you have here... Enjoy your systems everyone! Take care all W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Good news wap. I wouldn't charge you for an upgrade. I would never do work for you no matter the price. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Control4 has pushed updates on other releases and in-between releases for critical updates. It's not incredibly unusual, but it's not often, either. One instance I can think of off the top of my head is when a 3rd-party certificate was going to expire, before that happened, Control4 updated the certificate on affected controllers. Just because Control4 *can* push firmware updates without breaking systems for critical issues, it doesn't somehow invalidate Control4's business model, or make it so that Control4 should allow end users to update their own systems. No one has stated on these forums that some subset of sophisticated end users would not be perfectly capable of for the most part managing their own systems as well as some dealers. That's not the point. The point is, Control4 is a dealer-installed system, always has been, and likely will remain so for the foreseeable future. Control4 has not tried to hide this fact, and hasn't hidden the fact that if you check those boxes on your customer.control4.com account, you agree to Control4 being able to push critical updates. Control4 *does* have a full schedule of multiple beta releases before every release, both internal (to employees), as well as external (to dealers). RyanE P.S. Wappinghigh: you may want to check with your doctor to get your Rx adjusted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penn65000 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 On 2/6/2019 at 8:15 PM, wappinghigh said: Stay flexible. Be open minded to change. Spend up big on the networking and future proof structured wiring side. And sort out the WiFi, what extenders etc. You really need to get all that right from the start.! Central rack in correct position (remember they can be hot and noisy) that sort of thing. Always stay actively involved with the design and install of the project. Know what’s going on! That way if the dealer walks or you fall out later you know how to pick up the pieces. “Question more”‘ to quote Larry King. Don’t necessarily be sweet talked into thinking you have to control *everything* with Control4. It’s great for a lot of things right now But not all things IMO. Base your music multiroom choice on what streaming services you like and how you want to use it? Will your kids and partner still use the streaming service via the services app? Will they just want to stream from their mobile devices straight to the TV? Is gaming a priority? Is multi room music or video the priority with everyone. Central AV vs video sources in each room - Those are the questions you need to ask yourself. Make sure you understand HDMI HDCP is a complete PITA. Know why that is! Are you familiar with Alexa that sort of thing. Make sure you understand Control4 updates and add ons are dealer only and look like they will be for ever. This may never change. Cults often continue the way they started forever and if they decide to go down they often do so doing the same fixed thing and with the same beliefs, using the same way of thinking. Anyway that’s my advice - As I will no doubt be shouted off the forum (again) most of all enjoy the quest and the journey. IMO!!!!! Rock on C4!!!! W. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, msgreenf said: Good news wap. I wouldn't charge you for an upgrade. I would never do work for you no matter the price. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk That's a real pity you feel that way because I reckon we would get on like a house on fire and we would have so much to teach each other for mutual gain so if you feel like that there is not much I can do other than say again it's a shame. Take care W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, RyanE said: Control4 has pushed updates on other releases and in-between releases for critical updates. It's not incredibly unusual, but it's not often, either. One instance I can think of off the top of my head is when a 3rd-party certificate was going to expire, before that happened, Control4 updated the certificate on affected controllers. Just because Control4 *can* push firmware updates without breaking systems for critical issues, it doesn't somehow invalidate Control4's business model, or make it so that Control4 should allow end users to update their own systems. No one has stated on these forums that some subset of sophisticated end users would not be perfectly capable of for the most part managing their own systems as well as some dealers. That's not the point. The point is, Control4 is a dealer-installed system, always has been, and likely will remain so for the foreseeable future. Control4 has not tried to hide this fact, and hasn't hidden the fact that if you check those boxes on your customer.control4.com account, you agree to Control4 being able to push critical updates. Control4 *does* have a full schedule of multiple beta releases before every release, both internal (to employees), as well as external (to dealers). RyanE P.S. Wappinghigh: you may want to check with your doctor to get your Rx adjusted... Sure. What is the default setting of that "critical update" box in the customer portal page we are talking about Ryan? Thanks W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: Sure. What is the default setting of that "critical update" box in the customer portal page we are talking about Ryan? Thanks W Every last one of them is defaulted to not be enabled upon account creation. Nice try though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cyknight said: Every last one of them is defaulted to not be enabled upon account creation. Nice try though. What do you mean "nice try"? Why would a platform leave the default setting for critical updates un-enabled? If it was all properly tested before release - Give me ONE logical reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: What do you mean "nice try"? Why would a platform leave the default setting for critical updates un-enabled? If it was all properly tested before release - Give me ONE logical reason. Again, nice try. Because it's access to a home environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Just now, Cyknight said: Again, nice try. Because it's access to a home environment. I call BS on that... What do you mean "home environment"... That some how we are so stupid we don't understand the risks of running our own HA systems in our very own homes? here is the definition of critical FYI (of a situation or problem) having the potential to become disastrous; at a point of crisis. "the floodwaters had not receded and the situation was still critical" synonyms: grave, serious, dangerous, risky, perilous, hazardous, precarious, touch-and-go, in the balance, uncertain, desperate, dire, acute, very bad; More Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 If these updates are so critical then the default for a new user account should clearly be on. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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