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7" touchscreen (w/ camera) vs iPads


sevendustweb

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I know this topics is nothing new, but I need to hear your thoughts. I am planning a new Control4 install based on the HC-800 processor. I have going back over the issue of purchasing the 7" touch screens (w/camera) vs. 7" touch screens (w/o camera) vs. iPad 3.

I realize that the intercom functionality is limited to the 7" touchscreens (depending on whether you want video intercom or not). I also realize that the C4 iPad app cannot do page flips (when an outside visitor presses the intercom button) and it doesn't support Flash.

Are there any other pros/cons involved? If you had a choice, what would you select?

Thanks!

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Just to make sure: intercom AUDIO is also not supported.

Also, if you get 7" w/o camera they CANNOT display the video from a doorstation.

AND the doorstation camera can ONLY be displayed within the intercom enviroment, you can see it like you can normal IP cameras.

Beyond that, the flash is a big one too. This affects the pageflips you mentioned, all apps and some other things.

Also, currently there are certain specialized functions that don't work in iPad/iPhone (it's in the works but no real eta or even certainty it will work) due to it's different interface.

If you ask me personally: I don't care one bit about iPads, so I'll never pay money for one. If you're asking it in a more general sense, so MyHome (android, windows tablets) vs C4 TS, I would say: inwall go C4, (multiple) portable go tablet. Provided you don't want intercom. Single portable the device license plus device plus a "sation" is more than a single screen from C4.

One thing many forget about the higher C4 TS price is that if you do an iPad in a wall, look at several hundered bucks for a nice in-wall (or on-wall) "adapter". Same if you want some sort of "docking station" if you want to keep it portable but not just lying flat on a table on a charger cord. This is all included in the C4 Screen price.

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Just to make sure: intercom AUDIO is also not supported.

Also, if you get 7" w/o camera they CANNOT display the video from a doorstation.

AND the doorstation camera can ONLY be displayed within the intercom enviroment, you can see it like you can normal IP cameras.

Do you mean the doorstation camera can be displayed only with the 7" w/ camera within the intercom environment or the 7" w/o camera intercom environment? I am basically asking simply can you see the doorstation camera using any other device other then the 7" w/ camera and Navigation screen on TV? Can you see the doorstation camera on Windows tablet?

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As it stands right now the ONLY way you can see the camera from a door station (or a 7" with camera) is from a 7" with camera and ONLY within the intercom interface.

So it doesnt appear along with other IP cameras, it doesnt show in the intercom of the 7" without camera, it doesn't show on tablets, doesn't show online and can't be captured using a network video recorder.

There are some trying to work around this, and I've heard some success has been made but know no details.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
It's all kinda moot if people don't push the button. I've spent mucho on this intercom system and it's turning into a no-ROI situation.

100% spot on.

Just because a home automation concept might seem brilliant in the "lab" doesn't mean it will work well in the field.

Unfortunately humans being humans don't necessarily play along the way tech nerds *think* they will react

This is crucial to the whole concept

Also, what if you aren't in front of a TS if/when the door station is pressed. This has been an inherent weakness in *all* previous door station concepts. For years. That's why humans eventually avoid using them... probably its a Darwinian thing or something. We tend to avoid things we find have not worked so well during previous experiences...

Here we have (in control4 composer logic) the potential to improve the human <> tech interaction to make this all work just that little bit better - to turn this into an absolute killer product and solution for Control4, and it seems we have been thwarted in doing so by actual tech constraints within the hardware. Pity it appears to be been locked down and not thought about a bit better.. :)

Its also why in a previous post a couple of us pointed out that it would also be cool if the door station cam could be used to capture video outside its closed environment. The same way a few of us are now triggering video footage on multiple devices and shooting off push notification and email capture when we sense "presence" at the door..

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I guess what I'm saying is we should continue to lobby for better door station functionality

Door station to a Skype app

External trigger of door station -> to start a touchscreen conversation

Door station video capture

Door station can play announcements

That sort of thing.

Then let composer logic bring it all together the way we all know it can so beautifully :)

But I'm yet to fully understand if this is a physical constraint with the hardware, a deliberate lockdown, or it simply hasn't been given enough thought...

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I guess what I'm saying is we should continue to lobby for better door station functionality

Door station to a Skype app

External trigger of door station -> to start a touchscreen conversation

Door station video capture

Door station can play announcements

That sort of thing.

Then let composer logic bring it all together the way we all know it can so beautifully :)

But I'm yet to fully understand if this is a physical constraint with the hardware, a deliberate lockdown, or it simply hasn't been given enough thought...

Triggering the door station within the intercom should be possible already. This includes from a secondary device as mentioned above.

The reason it isn't available is that it uses a different video codec. In and by itself not so strange as it's the current standard vs an older one - but it means it doesn't work within the rest of C4 camera settings/abilities. Call that whatever you want...

As far as capturing it third party goes (such as network DVR), I'm not sure why either...

Now, why would you want the door station to play an announcement? I'm assuming you mean it can play a jingle or something? Triggering an announcement off of the station is not an issue...Which means "not standing in front of a Touchscreen" isn't that much of an issue either.

As for someone not pushing the door-station...by "simply" taking away a normal doorbell and putting the station clearly visible in it's place it doesn't seem like it would be a stretch to push the button on that instead. The annoying habit of people just knocking on front doors and ignoring doorbells etc is one that I've never understood. I really doubt "pushing the closest thing resembling a doorbell" is too technologically advanced these days.

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I've already got around the door knock problem. Using a CA motion detector. So I'm asking can this also trigger the door station to fire a command to a TS as well ? In other words take the door station button press out of the loop?

As for announcements. If the door station could handle these, we have a multitude of possible uses here ..

Messages if away .."please leave the package on veranda"

"could you please call my cell phone..." etc

Also ability to prompt a recorded announcent "sorry we aren't home, please leave a message into the door station "..

Different announcements could also be triggered in conjunction with applications like the Recluse fingerprint scanner

welcoming or giving instructions to cleaners, tradies or precocious teenagers etc depending on whose

finger print was sensed :)

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As it stands right now the ONLY way you can see the camera from a door station (or a 7" with camera) is from a 7" with camera and ONLY within the intercom interface.

So it doesnt appear along with other IP cameras, it doesnt show in the intercom of the 7" without camera, it doesn't show on tablets, doesn't show online and can't be captured using a network video recorder.

There are some trying to work around this, and I've heard some success has been made but know no details.

How does the Project Manager in charge of this new equipment still have a job? How do a bunch of guys who supposedly know the industry let this through?

C4 needs to be taken over by someone with a real design and engineering department. I'd love to see Microsoft or Apple gobble them up. Tis the season too, my favorite enterprise network company, Meraki, was just acquired by Cisco. The environment is excellent for such moves.

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How does the Project Manager in charge of this new equipment still have a job? How do a bunch of guys who supposedly know the industry let this through?

We don't know it was *their* issue. For all we know they wanted a more open solution. It could be management wanted it locked down to only support the new TS's, it could be the decisions were made before the company changed direction and sent out the olive branch that they were now "listening" to end users. Maybe it was thought too much open integration would confuse customers and therefore it was better to market it the way they have. Who knows? It could be a myriad of reasons unrelated to the tech design team. We'll never find out here. At the end of the day, the company can do whatever they want and the market will decide if the products fly...

All we can do is try and work with what we've got. Try and find out what the hardware is actually capable of doing. I find it hard to believe that whatever video and audio formats used by the door station and new TS's aren't capable of being used or displayed in other ways. That it's a problem with the formats per say..:).

I find it inconceivable that it's a hardware issue alone: That somehow the video and audio formats used couldn't be streamed in different ways if Control4 decided to change the way these devices worked and operated. By a combination of firmware updates and changes to composer pro..

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I've already got around the door knock problem. Using a CA motion detector. So I'm asking can this also trigger the door station to fire a command to a TS as well ? In other words take the door station button press out of the loop?

As for announcements. If the door station could handle these, we have a multitude of possible uses here ..

Messages if away .."please leave the package on veranda"

"could you please call my cell phone..." etc

Also ability to prompt a recorded announcent "sorry we aren't home, please leave a message into the door station "..

Different announcements could also be triggered in conjunction with applications like the Recluse fingerprint scanner

welcoming or giving instructions to cleaners, tradies or precocious teenagers etc depending on whose

finger print was sensed :)

As in start a session? sure. As in any other form of usual announcement, naturally.

While it may look fancy, consider this. Would it truly be wise to announce with certainty you're not home? Or on vacation?

For the others, play those instructions once in the house over speakers instead.

I'm not saying there isn't some merit, but the doorstation playing some form of announcement....isn't very high on my wishlist. In fact it isn't on there at all really. When there are so many other ways of doing this same thing perfectly well within C4...

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All we can do is try and work with what we've got. Try and find out what the hardware is actually capable of doing. I find it hard to believe that whatever video and audio formats used by the door station and new TS's aren't capable of being used or displayed in other ways. That it's a problem with the formats per say..:).

I'm not an engineer for C4, but I've done enough software development to know that it may not be an easy task to change the way the IP camera interface works within C4. It wouldn't be as simple as "adding a format". It may require a change in how director calls for the information, which may require a change in how director is loading the portion that does the IP camera calling, which may cause issues with all sorts of legacy or soon to be legacy devices...

I certainly believe it's TIME for some of this to be changed and updated, but I also realize it's not an hour of someone's time to do it.

I can't help but agree to some extend at least that the whole intercom set-up is...fighting for the right word but let's say insufficient. It WORKS well within it's parameters, very much so, but there are a whole busload of limiting parameters in place......

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^ Look forward to any upgrades...

Meanwhile does anyone have an answer to help C4UG out..?

Can an external sensor trigger the event... "tell door station to connect with touchscreen (ie fire a video up on the TS, beep or something and get ready for communication")

Can we at least get an alternative to a door station button press happening here...

Cheers.

And happy C4ing everyone :)

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^Yes you can. Utility is there to trigger a "button press" or an intercom session with any other companion TS. That really wasn't an issue with me though. As time goes on, it was a waste of money. I know when guests are coming over generally. Don't need to hold a convo. Also, the CA triggers a single chime to let me know (generally) that it's just a door-to-door flyer person.

Someone a while back complained about the DS cam PQ. I must now agree- the quality is not there.

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