need amp advice

[alex.w *//]

proposing this setup 

 

hc250 (let me know i should upgrade to hc800)

 

10phase dimmers

5switches

2aux dimmers

3config kp

 

3 somfy blind motor zigbee

 

3 7" touchscreen with cam

1 remote touchscreen

sr250

outdoor station

 

hdmi matrix switch

 

10 (50watts each) speakers into 4 zones

 

 

the question is now 

Can I use the 4 zone amplifer ( non or matrix)

to power the 10 speakers?

 

all I really want is to listen to music streaming from the controller or even apple tv or music bridge. 

 

most important is when someone rings the outdoor station. i want to be able to hear it from all the 10 speakers

[ILoveC4]

That will all work. And yes, I would get the HC800. The additional I/O alone makes it with it for your project.

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[SMHarman]

You would want the amp with the matrix to distribute the audio and run different sources in different rooms.

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[alex-w]

The 4 zone matrix amp will give enough power to the 10 speakers?

[SMHarman]

Where are you putting these 10 speakers?

The amp is controlled as 4 stereo pairs. If your 10 speakers are 5 stereo pairs then two of those pairs would need to share a zone. This can work well for lesser used zones.

The amp will have enough power to run 10 speakers but you will need to look at the speaker resistance when you are connecting multiple speakers to the same amp.

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[alex-w]

Any alternative solution? To another stereo receiver? Something that is not too expensive

[SMHarman]

Can you explain where you want to put these speakers?

e.g.

2 in Living room

2 in Kitchen

2 in Master Bedroom

Your list above is a proposed equipment list, not a setup as it does not detail what rooms these things are going in etc.

 

You will also need a permanently on source for the music from the controller, this can be an HDD attached to it, or a NAS.

[alex-w]

2 in kitchen

2 in patio

2 in living

2 in dining

2 in family

[lippavisual]

If you will never need to expand in the future, then you will need the 4 zone amp and a speaker point for the 5th zone. Of course, that's if you want individual control of each zone.

[SMHarman]

2 in kitchen

2 in patio

2 in living

2 in dining

2 in family

 

 

If you will never need to expand in the future, then you will need the 4 zone amp and a speaker point for the 5th zone. Of course, that's if you want individual control of each zone.

 

Or you could get an AVR amp for the Family (or living whatever your media room is) room to hook the TV (and probably add another SR250) and all the sources through and then use the 4 zone amp in Dining, Patio, Kitchen and Living rooms.  (Just reread your OP and see you are planning distributed AV, do you have enough SR250s if that is the case). 

 

This advice would still stand just that the AVR would have an input from the distribution matrix to extract the audio and amp it and pass the TV signal on to the TV so the Video Switch inside it would not really be used to its full capacity.

 

This would likely give you a spare audio / video zone 2 on the amp.

 

I have this Sony one and it plays very nicely with Control4.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-STR-DA1800ES-Channel-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B00965J7HM

 

The Amazon Warehouse Deal on the open boxed ones is always a great buy (mine was better than the current price but that is still well priced).  This also has WiFi built in if there is no networking to where the Family TV is.

 

A speakerpoint is going to run you $150 upwards so for an extra $350 you get a heck of a lot of functionality and control over the TV.  You should also be able to use the bluetooth and airplay input on this to connect devices to your home audio devices (will need the right audio signal dropped into you 4 zone amp.

[alex-w]

Not planning to expand

[SMHarman]

Great, so you have two options, a speaker point for zone 5 or drop an AVR amp in to give audio to the family room and if you want add another 3 speakers to that room for surround sound.

 

Another poster on here was busy selling the touchscreens.  Clearly the door access camera / doorbell etc functionality on them is something you covet, however will you use 4 of those and a remote touchscreen regularly?

 

The new controllers come with a site licence for you to add the MyHome app to your iPhone/Pad/Podtouch or Android device so you could consider substituting there.

 

Rememeber you can always drop the data / power cables for where you are considering all the touch screens and add them later if you still decide you want them.

[ILoveC4]

Don't do the AVR route. If you can put 4 of those speakers on one zone (IE: great room and kitchen) then do that.

Getting the Control4 amp with built in matrix switching and audio sense is the way to go. The 4 zone will push all those speakers like a champ.

The AVR "solution" will be a kludge. If you can't combine the two rooms in to one zone, put the four indoor zones on the amp and get a speaker point for the patio.

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[SMHarman]

Don't do the AVR route. If you can put 4 of those speakers on one zone (IE: great room and kitchen) then do that.

Getting the Control4 amp with built in matrix switching and audio sense is the way to go. The 4 zone will push all those speakers like a champ.

The AVR "solution" will be a kludge. If you can't combine the two rooms in to one zone, put the four indoor zones on the amp and get a speaker point for the patio.

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Why would that be a kludge, especially if you could then have the Family room with surround sound for movie night?

 

Most all installations have an AVR in one room along with audio distribution for other rooms?

 

I ask for myself as well. 

 

I've got a 4 zone amp I will be installing next year with plans to run that to Master bedroom, Kids bedroom, Study and Kitchen with the Living/Dining/Family/Everything space (NY Apartment) run off the AVR with 5.1 (prewire for 7.2) in that space.  With all equipment centrally located I understand I could distribute audio to all 5 zones at once and maybe even to 6 zones with the second zone in the AVR.

 

Am I Kludging this?

[Cyknight]

Using AVRs for normal distributed audio zones is messy because:

a) it uses up a LOT of extra space

unless you get a network/serial controllable unit (which are more expensive as well) you do not have audio level feed back if nothing else)

c) while 2nd/3rd zone receivers are now getting well working drivers - again they tend to make these for the more expensive models only. I really don't recommend using IR receivers and zone 2/3

d) you will still need an audio matrix to have all sources available everywhere.

 

It can be done, but unless you ARE doing surround, or have 'high quality towers' you need to power, stick with proper ditributed amplifiers (C4 or other).

[SMHarman]

Why would that be a kludge, especially if you could then have the Family room with surround sound for movie night?

 

Most all installations have an AVR in one room along with audio distribution for other rooms?

 

I ask for myself as well. 

 

I've got a 4 zone amp I will be installing next year with plans to run that to Master bedroom, Kids bedroom, Study and Kitchen with the Living/Dining/Family/Everything space (NY Apartment) run off the AVR with 5.1 (prewire for 7.2) in that space.  With all equipment centrally located I understand I could distribute audio to all 5 zones at once and maybe even to 6 zones with the second zone in the AVR.

 

Am I Kludging this?

 

 

Using AVRs for normal distributed audio zones is messy because:

a) it uses up a LOT of extra space

unless you get a network/serial controllable unit (which are more expensive as well) you do not have audio level feed back if nothing else)

c) while 2nd/3rd zone receivers are now getting well working drivers - again they tend to make these for the more expensive models only. I really don't recommend using IR receivers and zone 2/3

d) you will still need an audio matrix to have all sources available everywhere.

 

It can be done, but unless you ARE doing surround, or have 'high quality towers' you need to power, stick with proper ditributed amplifiers (C4 or other).

Wow this is a great thread hijack by me.

So looking at my situation here should I

1) for distributed audio get a speaker point or similar and have background music only speakers in the living room in addition to the surround, or do I 

2) need an Audio Matrix (at the moment BluRay (and rarely CD) which has HDMI and RCA outputs, Tivo Premiere (HDMI and RCA), Roku 3 (HDMI only) and C4 HC250 for TuneIn and MP4 etc (HDMI and RCA via 3.5 breakout). 

 

My AVR is the Sony STR-DA1800-ES which is IP controllable with the C4 driver (audio feedback?) 

I also have the 4Ch Matrix C4 amp.

 

Seems with most of these I can put audio output RCA to the C4 amp and the HDMI to the AVR.  I can also create a Analog out on Video 1 (or the less popular zone 2) back to the C4 amp if I want all 5 zones on the same source at the same time.

 

As was commented the other day, this AVR is adequately compentent at Zone 2 so I could use it for distributed video if I add a second TV to the apartment.

 

Anyways, advice is recieved with thanks.

[Cyknight]

Again what you CAN do - especially with equipment you already HAVE - is one thing, advise on a new build another.

 

I do not set-up client systems with 2nd zones from receivers, video OR audio, with a handfull of very rare exceptions where it really is a single room solution (bar with two TVs for example). It's just proven to not be worth the hassle/limitations from my or the client perspective - there's plenty of low-cost options available (I can get a 4x2 hdmi switch for under 50 dollars if a quick second zone is needed) that can be used in tight budgets which, while not preferred, are still preferable in my opinion. Indeed I have changed a handfull of setups from 'zone2 setups' this way and the in the end the customer is that much happier with the result, which in the end is what matters.

 

Yes the sony is of course one of the receivers that has full and proper ip control with volume % feedback. No matrix needed IF you can hook up all sources as desired without it - I suppose you MAY need an audio matrix anyway would have been a better choice of wording. I wouldn't recommend feeding the receiver back by the way, it is liable to cause audio path issues.

 

No I'm not saying you have to have separate stereo speakers in a surround zone for 'music' - although I will say that if the room is used in 'across the house' music it may not be a bad idea either - as it ensures there's no delay difference between the zones as surround receivers quite regularly cause small delays due to processing, and even a few milliseconds can cause noticeable echo. In addition, one advantage of using everything that plays together at the same time on a single (or several identical) amplifiers is that the volume levels will be a (near) match, where a surround receiver on xx% can be much louder or softer then a C4 amp at the same %.

 

 

Just to note - I do indeed myself use several AVRs across my house for amplification. There's some reasons why, including but not limited to testing reasons and speaker reasons, but the above discussed 'issues' in doing so is very much derived from a very direct personal experience.

[alex-w]

I'm just wondering if a regular stereo receiver with a & b speaker output would work on this Kind of situation?

[Cyknight]

It would if nothing else have the same limitation (I don't think there's many stereo receivers out there with serial or ip control, let alone that also has a driver written for it), plus most of the one's I've seen either do not have a command to turn on/off a/b via remotes, or at least do not do it discreetly (meaning separate comands for all 4 options).

Also a/b speaker options limits you to listening to the same source on both 'outputs' - it won't allow you to listen to two different sources.

[alex-w]

But it will ring the speakers if someone presses the outdoor station?

[Cyknight]

Nothing rings be default from the outdoor station (except the current touchscreens of course) - you'd have to set up an announcement with a doorbell chime to do that.

If you have a feed from a controller to the amp - then yes it can do that as well.

[SMHarman]

And it would need to be always on.

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