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Cisco PoE Switch questions


eggzlot

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Question - I currently have this model PoE Switch Cisco SG300-28P 28-port Gigabit PoE Managed Switch (SRW2024P-K9-NA). It holds both PoE items and non PoE items.

I am slowly running out of space and I know I need another switch soon.  Should I look into a non PoE switch and move the non PoE stuff off the Cisco listed above and put that stuff into a non PoE Switch or just get a 2nd PoE so I have more flexibility and less wire pulling/moving?

I saw this model SG300-28PP-K9-NA for $410.  My current model is almost 2x the price.  Both are 28 port.   Both are cisco PoE (not PoE+).  What are the differences?

Cheaper one: https://www.amazon.com/Cisco-28-Port-Managed-Switch-SG300-28PP-K9-NA/dp/B00ICQF6GW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1471962538&sr=8-1&keywords=SG300-28PP-K9-NA
More Expensive one: https://www.amazon.com/Cisco-SG300-28P-28-port-Gigabit-SRW2024P-K9-NA/dp/B0041ORNC4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1471962538&sr=8-4&keywords=SG300-28PP-K9-NA

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wanted to bump my thread.  I am need of a network update.  I could add a non PoE switch and just move stuff around.  I have 28 PoE full.  About 8 PoE devices and about 20 non PoE devices.  I want to add 1-2 new devices of which they are PoE but regardless, best bang for the buck get a 48 port non PoE and move 20 things over there and just keep the Cisco PoE for PoE devices - I'd have about 18 more PoE slots open and about 25 non PoE open if I got a 48 port switch.

Can you mix/match brands?  Is it as easy as just doing one cable from Cisco into the next unit to link them together?

Any suggestions?  Need to upgrade within 2 weeks so want to shop around and place an order this week.

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Can you mix and match - yes, though there IS a small chance of problems (very, VERY rare, though if it does exists - it could paralyze your network)

Is it as easy as....for normal switch cascading - yes it is.

Suggestions? Drop the old PoE switch, get the 48 port that covers all your devices, and get a midspan instead (simply put, a PoE injector with multiple in/outs)

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On 8/23/2016 at 10:36 AM, eggzlot said:

I saw this model SG300-28PP-K9-NA for $410.  My current model is almost 2x the price.  Both are 28 port.   Both are cisco PoE (not PoE+).  What are the differences?

 
 

P = PoE, PP = PoE+, MP = PoE+

You are correct that the switch you currently own is PoE and not PoE+.  If you require every port to be PoE+ this switch may not have enough power per port capacity.  The MP has more power per port capacity.

As for compatibility, you will not have any problems, but try to run the same version of code on both switches. 

If you only have the default VLAN (VLAN 1) and all ports are in that VLAN, just connect the 2 switches together with an Ethernet cable, crossover Ethernet cable or buy two multimode fiber SFP's and a fiber patch cable.  If you are running multiple VLANs, make the same connection between the 2 switches and configure both connected ports as 802.1q trunks and add all the configured VLAN's to the trunk.  Make sure all the VLAN's are configured on both switches and try to name them the same to eliminate any confusion. 

If you have multiple VLANs and you want all of your VLANs to be able to communicate with each other, one of the switches has to be configured a router (layer 3).  You will need to create an SVI (switch virtual interface = layer 3 interface) for each configured VLAN.

Here is Youtube link that will help.

 

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7 hours ago, rayk32 said:

P = PoE, PP = PoE+, MP = PoE+

You are correct that the switch you currently own is PoE and not PoE+.  If you require every port to be PoE+ this switch may not have enough power per port capacity.  The MP has more power per port capacity.

As for compatibility, you will not have any problems, but try to run the same version of code on both switches. 

If you only have the default VLAN (VLAN 1) and all ports are in that VLAN, just connect the 2 switches together with an Ethernet cable, crossover Ethernet cable or buy two multimode fiber SFP's and a fiber patch cable.  If you are running multiple VLANs, make the same connection between the 2 switches and configure both connected ports as 802.1q trunks and add all the configured VLAN's to the trunk.  Make sure all the VLAN's are configured on both switches and try to name them the same to eliminate any confusion. 

If you have multiple VLANs and you want all of your VLANs to be able to communicate with each other, one of the switches has to be configured a router (layer 3).  You will need to create an SVI (switch virtual interface = layer 3 interface) for each configured VLAN.

Here is Youtube link that will help.

 

RayK32 - Isn't it odd the PoE+ is cheaper than the PoE model by almost 300?  I thought PoE+ was more expensive.  Would PoE+ fry my PoE Devices that arent PoE+?

if I get a regular switch, the two multimode fiber SFP the most reliable way to connect them?  I have no idea what a multimode fiber SFP is - is that a dongle that goes between the two?  Is it a special cable but has the same connector as an Ethernet cable?  Can you point me towards a model?

Cy - appreciate the suggestion but not sure how things are wired that removing the PoE, getting a 48 port switch plus a rack mountable PoE Midspan for 20 or so devices is easy for me to wire up, or cost effective at this time.

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Yes, it does seem odd that the PoE+ switch is priced lower.  I have no explanation for that.

It will not fry your devices.  Only the power needed will be used.

I gave you all the scenarios for connecting the switches, but the only thing you gain from fiber is the longer distance limitations of the cable between the two switches.  Google multimode fiber SFP.  It is just a module that you plug into the SFP slot on the switch.  Your SG300 28P has 2 SFP slots that are called mini GBIC.  The type of multimode fiber patch cable you would need is LC-LC.  LC is the type of fiber connector and LC-LC means that the same connector is used on both ends of the cable.  It is a different type connector than the RJ-45 type that is used for twisted pair Ethernet.  You don't have to go with fiber, just letting you know that you have options.

If you go the fiber route, please be sure to get Cisco branded SFPs.  There are definitely compatibility issues when mixing different switch manufacturers with different SFP manufacturers.

https://www.amazon.com/Cisco-GLC-SX-MM-mini-GBIC-transceiver-module/dp/B00M6BLQ3G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1472477340&sr=8-2&keywords=cisco+multimode+sfp

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54 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

Cy - appreciate the suggestion but not sure how things are wired that removing the PoE, getting a 48 port switch plus a rack mountable PoE Midspan for 20 or so devices is easy for me to wire up, or cost effective at this time.

As opposed to rewire 20 devices to a new switch? 2 switches would take up the same space as one switch and a midspan...

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41 minutes ago, rayk32 said:

Yes, it does seem odd that the PoE+ switch is priced lower.  I have no explanation for that.

It will not fry your devices.  Only the power needed will be used.

I gave you all the scenarios for connecting the switches, but the only thing you gain from fiber is the longer distance limitations of the cable between the two switches.  Google multimode fiber SFP.  It is just a module that you plug into the SFP slot on the switch.  Your SG300 28P has 2 SFP slots that are called mini GBIC.  The type of multimode fiber patch cable you would need is LC-LC.  LC is the type of fiber connector and LC-LC means that the same connector is used on both ends of the cable.  It is a different type connector than the RJ-45 type that is used for twisted pair Ethernet.  You don't have to go with fiber, just letting you know that you have options.

If you go the fiber route, please be sure to get Cisco branded SFPs.  There are definitely compatibility issues when mixing different switch manufacturers with different SFP manufacturers.

https://www.amazon.com/Cisco-GLC-SX-MM-mini-GBIC-transceiver-module/dp/B00M6BLQ3G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1472477340&sr=8-2&keywords=cisco+multimode+sfp

the switches are in the same AV Rack so the distance is 1 RU - in that case no benefit of fiber?  If I got another Cisco SG Managed switch with a mini GBIC I would only need an LC-LC cable?  I see what you linked to, that metal dongle looking thing, but if both switches have mini GBIC wouldn't I only need the LC-LC Cable between the two of them?

If I got another cisco SG managed switch, would this cable connect them using the mini GBIC port? https://www.amazon.com/Multimode-Duplex-Fiber-Optic-Cable/dp/B004Z9301I/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1472480434&sr=1-2&keywords=lc+to+lc+multimode+fiber

sorry for all the questions, just making sure I am understanding it properly

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36 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

As opposed to rewire 20 devices to a new switch? 2 switches would take up the same space as one switch and a midspan...

also looking at a cost perspective and future growth.

Adding a 52 port Switch would cost me ~$400 but giving me a total of 80 ports for tons of future growth.  I only have 8-10 PoE Devices so I still have 18 PoE slots open and I'd have about about 30 non PoE slots open.

If I got the same 52 port switch and midspan I am spending more money but since I am eliminating my current PoE switch I am paying more money for only 52 ports and an undetermined number of PoE active ports (looking at rack mountable multi port midspans seem very expensive)

Is there a reason why you suggest not cascading 2 switches for a home automation/control4 environment?  

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There's plenty of reasons to never cascade switches if you can manage it. Using SFP certainly helps minimize the main issue, which is bottlenecking communication between devices in the separate switches to a single port/uplink - but you also start complicating your setups, especially with managed switches, let alone VLANs etc.

C4 does NOT recommend using managed switches at all, not because it can't be done, but because it takes a different level of expertise/work to make it work right.

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19 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

There's plenty of reasons to never cascade switches if you can manage it. Using SFP certainly helps minimize the main issue, which is bottlenecking communication between devices in the separate switches to a single port/uplink - but you also start complicating your setups, especially with managed switches, let alone VLANs etc.

C4 does NOT recommend using managed switches at all, not because it can't be done, but because it takes a different level of expertise/work to make it work right.

Here is where we get above my pay grade  and I admit it.  I am fairly sure my original dealer just plugged and play did not set up much in the way of VLAN, managed settings, etc.  I could be wrong but from what I learned on how he set up stuff I am going to guess it is as basic as it comes.  Not sure if that matters in the long run.  

Any screen shots I can take of the current PoE set up to share to know if anything complex or complicated is set up?

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Of course it's (likely) to be above your pay-grade.. I mean no offense - you shouldn't HAVE to know this. Heck - it's above a lot of dealers' heads - that's why C4 doesn't recommend managed switches (unless they are packedge, for which they can easily create config files to load as they own it).

If unsure - and going separate switch and midspan is byond your budget - just go for a good 'dumb' switch, including Cisco 100 series, or the better Netgear non-managed switches (just a few examples, there's lots of options)

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5 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Of course it's (likely) to be above your pay-grade.. I mean no offense - you shouldn't HAVE to know this. Heck - it's above a lot of dealers' heads - that's why C4 doesn't recommend managed switches (unless they are packedge, for which they can easily create config files to load as they own it).

If unsure - and going separate switch and midspan is byond your budget - just go for a good 'dumb' switch, including Cisco 100 series, or the better Netgear non-managed switches (just a few examples, there's lots of options)

dumb switch is fine by me - matches my level of knowledge on these products :-)

https://www.amazon.com/Cisco-Gigabit-Switch-Mini-GBIC-SG100-24-NA/dp/B008CQ6D6E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472486195&sr=8-1&keywords=Cisco+SG100-24

The Cisco has the same mini GBIC so I could get that fiber cable to connect to my current PoE model?  Price seems almost identical between NetGear and Cisco (About $200 for a 24 port model) or for a few dollars more the 110 series has a 24 port model and half are PoE and half arent: https://www.amazon.com/Systems-24-Port-Gigabit-Switch-SG11024HPNA/dp/B00VPT8VPG/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1472486510&sr=1-1&keywords=SG110-24HP

Am I on the right path?  If I got this switch I'd keep the PoE first in the chain then add this new switch in after?

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Yep, right path. SPF will be good (not REQUIRED mind you) - but make sure you stick to the sam brand, don't mix brands. It may work, but I wouldn't risk it.

As for which switch first - that really depend on what is on them. Keep controllers, media players, game consoles and computers etc on the 'main' switch (whichever that is) - Touchscreens can easily be on a secondary switch (limited data).

Keep cameras and their recorder on the SAME switch, regardless of which one that is - the single streams C4 grabs don't require that much data either so this CAN be on the 'second' switch.

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4 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Yep, right path. SPF will be good (not REQUIRED mind you) - but make sure you stick to the sam brand, don't mix brands. It may work, but I wouldn't risk it.

As for which switch first - that really depend on what is on them. Keep controllers, media players, game consoles and computers etc on the 'main' switch (whichever that is) - Touchscreens can easily be on a secondary switch (limited data).

Keep cameras and their recorder on the SAME switch, regardless of which one that is - the single streams C4 grabs don't require that much data either so this CAN be on the 'second' switch.

you define main switch by the first one in the line, correct?

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If you go the 2 switch route just use an Ethernet cable.  The recommendation of a single switch and midspan PoE is viable as well.  You asked about a second switch so I just explained how to do it and the options available.  

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5 minutes ago, rayk32 said:

If you go the 2 switch route just use an Ethernet cable.  The recommendation of a single switch and midspan PoE is viable as well.  You asked about a second switch so I just explained how to do it and the options available.  

thanks i appreciate it and leaning towards a dumb unmanaged switch.  no benefit using the mini connector vs just a straight ethernet cable?  for the few bux for the LC cable you mentioned I dont mind since I am now saving $$ on the switch too

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8 minutes ago, rayk32 said:

nope, just use Ethernet.  Gigabit is Gigabit regardless of the cable.

 

 

Yeah, it would be minimal - only with link-aggregation would you achieve any true increase (though some SFP ports support 10Gb). Well or true stacking switches.

Either way, you're then moving back into the realm of more advanced networking (and managed switches)

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4 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Yeah, it would be minimal - only with link-aggregation would you achieve any true increase (though some SFP ports support 10Gb). Well or true stacking switches.

Either way, you're then moving back into the realm of more advanced networking (and managed switches)

sorry last question (hopefully) I notice Cisco has a 220 series.  It is not managed, but its a smart switch.  Can see whats going on with traffic, QoS and a few other tools but no layer 3 support or other "managed" features.  priced very well on Amazon right now, cheaper than the 200 line.

Would this work?  Upon unboxing is it fairly much plug and play?

At this price point I can stomach adding 48 ports of non PoE freeing up a ton of PoE ports on my current PoE switch

https://www.amazon.com/SYSTEMS-50-Port-Gigabit-Switch-SG22050K9NA/dp/B00L0LE0MM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472505517&sr=8-1&keywords=sg220-50

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11 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Mhh. Just log in and turn QoS off and you should be OK.

thanks.  Really wanted something more than 24 port and all unmanaged switches seemed to cap out at 24.  I appreciate the help.  figured this was a decent compromise with C4 recommendation, port #s, etc.

I'll post back after this weekend when I install.

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