Centralized AVR with local video source(s)

[LollerAgent]

Has anyone ever had to centralize audio/AVR in a rack, but had a local video source at a remote TV (like a Dish Joey, etc)?

Trying to figure out the best way to get Dish/video source audio back to the centralized AVR?  Would you take audio out from the TV (not the Joey) directly back into the AVR using TOSLINK?  How would you then feed it into the audio matrix - Z2 output from the AVR to the matrix (in the same rack)?

Or would it be a better idea to just centralize the Dish Joey in the same rack and use some type of HD-BASE-T from the TV to the Joey?  There is no traditional video distribution/matrix in this setup.

[C4tune]

If you have to pipe a signal (audio/video)  to and from, why not centralize everything and just pipe video back with a balun. 

[LollerAgent]

Probably the best idea.  Any suggestions for baluns?

[Pounce]

How many tv's would you like to support? How many ethernet drops at the tv?

[LollerAgent]

I have 3xCAT6 at my TV locations.  Most will all have local source(s) (but will potentially utilize one the CAT6 drops for audio return into my WHA matrix), but this one zone in particular could make use of an AVR for 5.1, and I would rather hide that gear in my rack and not put it around the TV.  That is the reason I was thinking about centralizing both audio and video for this one particular zone.  

[brucecampbell]

centralize makes sense - keeps the tv location tidy.

AV matrix makes life easy - but are pretty pricey - I still have my 10 year old leaf component matrix.

I have since got a smart tv and an apple tv, so I use the TV's digital audio out and run this back to the avr in the rack. This single source is the audio input for both TV and Apple TV, while the sky box, controllers, dvd and media player sit in the rack providing the other av inputs.

My current lounge set up required 4 Cat6 and an RG6 cable from rack to tv.

Apple tv plugs directly into TV to avoid messing around with any HDCP handshake issues, but obviously means I can't use it at other locations.

But I have Chrome cast and xbox located at other tv's so no issue really.

[rea]

I have nearly the exact setup you mentioned in my great room space. I didn't really want to spend the money on an HDMI matrix, but I wanted my speakers at that location hooked into the whole house system because I have a very open floor plan and have in-ceiling speakers in the kitchen and needed seamless pairing of zones when watching TV. 

I have a Joey, Roku and EA-1 plugged into the TV with HDMI. I then have audio out from the TV going down to the matrix (C4 8 zone matrix amp) with a Cat6 balun directly from the TV (analog out, but could use TOSLINK the same way). The speaker wire comes up from the audio matrix to my built in bookshelves on each side of the TV and I just have passive bookshelf speakers there. It works really well and was probably many thousand dollars cheaper than getting an HDMI matrix being all my other TV zones have local audio anyway. 

This would be a little more complicated if you're going from an AVR and doing 5.1, but shouldn't be too much different if you've got the speaker line run. 

[LollerAgent]

9 hours ago, rea said:

I have nearly the exact setup you mentioned in my great room space. I didn't really want to spend the money on an HDMI matrix, but I wanted my speakers at that location hooked into the whole house system because I have a very open floor plan and have in-ceiling speakers in the kitchen and needed seamless pairing of zones when watching TV. 

I have a Joey, Roku and EA-1 plugged into the TV with HDMI and audio going down to the matrix (C4 8 zone matrix amp) with a Cat6 balun directly from the TV (analog out, but could use TOSLINK the same way). The speaker wire comes up from the audio matrix to my built in bookshelves on each side of the TV and I just have passive bookshelf speakers there. It works really well and was probably many thousand dollars cheaper than getting an HDMI matrix being all my other TV zones have local audio anyway. 

This would be a little more complicated if you're going from an AVR and doing 5.1, but shouldn't be too much different if you've got the speaker line run. 

Why are you running HDMI down to the rack if your sources are local?  Are you using HD-BASE-T?  Yeah - it would be similar doing 5.1.  I would just be wiring speakers and sources into an AVR and not the matrix directly.  I could then connect my AVR's Z2 ouputs into the matrix if I wanted to utilize the 5.1 zone for WHA.

[rea]

51 minutes ago, LollerAgent said:

Why are you running HDMI down to the rack if your sources are local?  Are you using HD-BASE-T?  Yeah - it would be similar doing 5.1.  I would just be wiring speakers and sources into an AVR and not the matrix directly.  I could then connect my AVR's Z2 ouputs into the matrix if I wanted to utilize the 5.1 zone for WHA.

Sorry, that didn't come across clearly. All the sources are plugged into the TV via HDMI (locally) and only audio out from the TV (via RCA to Cat6 balun) is going to the matrix--there is no HDMI run to the rack. Mine is just a stereo zone so no need to carry 5.1 down to the rack. 

[Pounce]

18 hours ago, LollerAgent said:

I have 3xCAT6 at my TV locations.  Most will all have local source(s) (but will potentially utilize one the CAT6 drops for audio return into my WHA matrix), but this one zone in particular could make use of an AVR for 5.1, and I would rather hide that gear in my rack and not put it around the TV.  That is the reason I was thinking about centralizing both audio and video for this one particular zone.  

Would you be satisfied if you only had one zone? Meaning just for this TV you have all the equipment in the cabinet. If so do you think you could run an HDMI cable from the cabinet to the TV? On the off chance that is even possible you could enjoy the best quality at the TV and the AVR. DolbyVision, Atmos etc. If you could do that your cost is the cable and any cable run costs like patching and paint etc.

Is the room wired for surround speakers back to the rack? If not and you want that it's a good time to make a mess all at once. 

If you can't run an HDMI cable maybe the easiest is a point to point HDBaseT., As an example (I am not pushing this product) https://www.amazon.com/HDbaseT-SWITCHER-Receivers-CONTROL4-AUTOMATION/dp/B077L3VYVS

With that you give up some quality, but also probably achieve the best possible quality today that these kinds of things can support.

[zaphod]

10 hours ago, rea said:

I have a Joey, Roku and EA-1 plugged into the TV with HDMI and audio going down to the matrix (C4 8 zone matrix amp) with a Cat6 balun directly from the TV (analog out, but could use TOSLINK the same way). The speaker wire comes up from the audio matrix to my built in bookshelves on each side of the TV and I just have passive bookshelf speakers there. It works really well and was probably many thousand dollars cheaper than getting an HDMI matrix being all my other TV zones have local audio anyway. 

Great idea - does the audio always remain in sync?  There is no delay introduced?  (I am guessing not since the audio remains analog at all times).  But I think I have seen the digital audio from HDMI can be slightly off sync from the analog audio.  Do you have to use two Cat6 runs for this - one for the HDMI and one for the analog audio?

I guess if you had an AVR at the location you could do the same thing using the AVR's analog out rather than the TV's analog out.

[LollerAgent]

21 minutes ago, Pounce said:

Would you be satisfied if you only had one zone? Meaning just for this TV you have all the equipment in the cabinet. If so do you think you could run an HDMI cable from the cabinet to the TV? On the off chance that is even possible you could enjoy the best quality at the TV and the AVR. DolbyVision, Atmos etc. If you could do that your cost is the cable and any cable run costs like patching and paint etc.

Is the room wired for surround speakers back to the rack? If not and you want that it's a good time to make a mess all at once. 

If you can't run an HDMI cable maybe the easiest is a point to point HDBaseT., As an example (I am not pushing this product) https://www.amazon.com/HDbaseT-SWITCHER-Receivers-CONTROL4-AUTOMATION/dp/B077L3VYVS

With that you give up some quality, but also probably achieve the best possible quality today that these kinds of things can support.

By "cabinet" do you mean the cabinet under the TV or the rack in my basement where all of my other gear is?

This is a new-construction, so I am free to run whatever cables I need now (and for the future).  I can run HDMI from the TV mount location to the "local" cabinet - no problem.  I'm going to do this regardless of how this "zone" is configured for local sources like gaming consoles, etc.  I can also run CAT6 for HD-BASE-T from the TV location to my rack in the basement.

I could possibly just keep the AVR local as well - I was just trying to save some cabinet space for my wife

If I do keep the AVR local, I can still pipe it into my WHA audio matrix in the rack using CAT6 and a balun.  

 

[LollerAgent]

So - I think I'll just wire for both.  I'll wire the local 5.1 speakers to the cabinet under the TV - but then provide a loop down to my rack.  So - I can choose to either put the AVR local or stick it my rack. I'll also have CAT6 behind the TV and in the cabinet below the TV that can be used for both HD-BASE-T and audio return if desired.

This will allow me to make the decision (or change my mind) down the road.

[rea]

38 minutes ago, zaphod said:

Great idea - does the audio always remain in sync?  There is no delay introduced?  (I am guessing not since the audio remains analog at all times).  But I think I have seen the digital audio from HDMI can be slightly off sync from the analog audio.  Do you have to use two Cat6 runs for this - one for the HDMI and one for the analog audio?

I guess if you had an AVR at the location you could do the same thing using the AVR's analog out rather than the TV's analog out.

So yeah, I realized I worded that poorly (which I just edited to hopefully make a bit more clear--sorry about that).

I have no HDMI/video going to the AV rack from that location--just analog audio out from the TV with a Cat6 balun. That audio goes straight into the C4 matrix amp. Being the great room and kitchen speakers are both getting fed by the same amp, the audio is seamless between the two zones.  

[Pounce]

1 hour ago, LollerAgent said:

By "cabinet" do you mean the cabinet under the TV or the rack in my basement where all of my other gear is?

This is a new-construction, so I am free to run whatever cables I need now (and for the future).  I can run HDMI from the TV mount location to the "local" cabinet - no problem.  I'm going to do this regardless of how this "zone" is configured for local sources like gaming consoles, etc.  I can also run CAT6 for HD-BASE-T from the TV location to my rack in the basement.

I could possibly just keep the AVR local as well - I was just trying to save some cabinet space for my wife

If I do keep the AVR local, I can still pipe it into my WHA audio matrix in the rack using CAT6 and a balun.  

 

Central rack/cabinet is what I meant. If new construction I'd run a smurf tube to the tv locations back to your rack. Run hdmi if the distance permits. Put a couple in just in case. With that its simple and the best possible quality.