C4 Tstat question

[spl147]

Dear Mr. spl147,

I hoped you noticed I mentioned MR. I am so impressed by your intellect and powers of persuasion that I will no longer respond to you in a thread.

I hope you don't mind if I talk to someone else in the thread, I mean after all, you know everything there is to be know about C4 but some people do not. I will try to answer their questions but I will NEVER dream of responding to you (ALL MIGHTY)

Please forgive me

I will STFU

Brent

thank god for that!!!!!!!

[ILoveC4]

spl147...I think you had better just go away.

[spl147]

Again with your 2 cents...........

[dogdvr]

spl147...I think you had better just go away.

Ilovec4,

I have a deal for you, I will sell you 2 POE touch screens (that do not power upt)

I will also sell you 12 T-stats that will not work with residential C4 systems.

All of this for just 2 cents

LOL

[spl147]

spl147...I think you had better just go away.

Ilovec4' date='

I have a deal for you, I will sell you 2 POE touch screens (that do not power upt)

I will also sell you 12 T-stats that will not work with residential C4 systems.

All of this for just 2 cents

LOL[/quote']

again the putz speaks.........

next

[ILoveC4]

spl147...I think it is time for you to leave.

dogdvr, can you reflash those and fix the PoE Touchscreens with the two USB ports I found by taking it apart?

[dogdvr]

Yes,

But only dealers know which USB port to use

*top secret*

[ILoveC4]

I have the Composer Manual I bought off eBay! I can do it.

Side note: Anyone who has seen the real book you get at training would know that idiot selling it on ebay has just printed the help pages from Composer Pro (which are pretty much useless for someone trying to figure out any programming) and bound them at Kinko's. Then again, anyone who has seen the real book wouldn't get swindled by that idiot on ebay, or even be on ebay looking for the manual.

[dogdvr]

LOL,

I would send that to anybody who asked, but I did sign an agreement.

Not much help from that manual.

(unless you were trained and just need a refresher)

[ILoveC4]

Not much help from that manual.

That is what kills me. People pay $50 for that crap.

[wingzz]

i am not taking business from dealers i am buying from dealers.....and im sure im not to only non dealer on hear who has the software!!!!!!!! it is quite easy to find.........

No' date=' you're not buying it from dealers. If you are, they are likely going to become non-dealers.

Dealers sign a dealer agreement, part of which they agree that they will not sell to people they do not service. [b']I believe also that dealers have agreed that they will not offer the product for less than the MSRP (MAP pricing), but I could be mistaken on that point.

Neither of these are conducive to selling on eBay, and if a dealer *is* selling on eBay, they may have their dealer license revoked.

RyanE

That sir is price fixing if I'm not mistaken, you might want to reword your statment

[thecodeman]

i am not taking business from dealers i am buying from dealers.....and im sure im not to only non dealer on hear who has the software!!!!!!!! it is quite easy to find.........

No' date=' you're not buying it from dealers. If you are, they are likely going to become non-dealers.

Dealers sign a dealer agreement, part of which they agree that they will not sell to people they do not service. [b']I believe also that dealers have agreed that they will not offer the product for less than the MSRP (MAP pricing), but I could be mistaken on that point.

Neither of these are conducive to selling on eBay, and if a dealer *is* selling on eBay, they may have their dealer license revoked.

RyanE

That sir is price fixing if I'm not mistaken, you might want to reword your statment

It's up to Ryan, but from what I've seen the MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) = the MSRP. The dealer can ultimately charge you what he wants for the gear on his invoice, and whether he wants to make money or not is up to him.

[RyanE]

MAP is not price fixing.

Dealers are welcome to sell at whatever pricing they want. They have just agreed not to advertise at less than MSRP.

They've also agreed to not sell systems that they do not service, along with other things.

Standard dealer agreement functionality.

RyanE

[RyanE]

Also, obviously I don't speak for the company, and I'm not a lawyer...

RyanE

[Matt]

This thread is officially my home page. Its only getting better!

[wingzz]

MAP is not price fixing.

Dealers are welcome to sell at whatever pricing they want. They have just agreed not to advertise at less than MSRP.

They've also agreed to not sell systems that they do not service, along with other things.

Standard dealer agreement functionality.

RyanE

That is better, saying they agreed to not advertise at lower than MSRP is much different than saying they agreed not to sell for less than MSRP

[RyanE]

I said 'offer' when I really meant 'advertise' initially.

I suppose 'offer' is a bit too vague, and certainly could be interpreted that dealers can't sell for less than MSRP, which obviously is incorrect.

I apologize for the confusion. I should've just said 'advertise' at MSRP instead of 'offer'.

RyanE

[mercedes]

I own a retail store in a different industry. Map and MSRP is always something that resellers have to agree with. The biggest impact is if the manufacturer enforces it or not. I like MAP. It levels things out. Once someone comes into your store you can make whatever deal you want. If someone was advertising products for a ridiculously low price because they are working out of their garage instead of a retail store with real employees and expense, you wouldn't get the chance to service the customer. One thing that many people seem to forget is that we should want the companies we buy from, and expect service after the sale from, to make money and be profitable. With that said, I do not want someone to retire early after they make my sale, but I want them to be around when I need them. A fair price is what we should all expect. I find that the best way to get better pricing is loyalty to a vendor and not being a jerk as a customer

[lippavisual]

Well said Mercedes. I still get people looking for me to drop my price just because the "it's for me" mentality kicks in and I have never even dealt with them before.

The way I look at it is, if you give me some steady business and not always try to work around me, then we can work some deals. Gotta have that relationship first.

[CFUG]

Yes, in an ideal situation this would be nice. But, today things are very tough and even the online discounters are folding. Consumers are getting screwed too much now as well as vendors. I just got shafted beacause a vendor chraged my account immediately even though they knew the were closing their doors for good.

You guys can see the posts that have come-up lately from people wanting to do it themselves. How much of this is due to the fact that their paychecks have gone static or have been cut? Please understand, I'm one of those who pays my dealer his price, pay ontime (don't use him as a bank), don't buy my C4 stuff on eFlay, always go to him first before coming here to complain, put-up with several attempts to fix something.

I have never tried to beat me dealer down because of waht you guys are saying- I need him for the future. BUT, times are tough right now! I am at my end with a system that crashes and I'm getting beat-up by my wife for it. So, it's a two-way street.

[lippavisual]

True, I fully understand where you are coming from. I don't want to start an off-topic debate but, I'll give you an example of what I deal with. I have this "customer" who has called a few times for quotes over the years. I give him a very competitive quote every time he asks. I have yet to do any work for this guy. Yet, the other day he tells me he wants either an 8x4 or 8x6 video matrix installed. I give him the price. Then he calls me back and says, "I don't want the 8x4 because I would like future expandability, so I'm leaning towards the 8x6. That switch is very expensive ($2499), do you think you could give me a deal on it?"

Just because I talked to him over email or on the phone a few times doesn't mean that I have to give him a "deal". He wanted $600 off the total cost. My labor rates are already as low as I can get. There's no room to move, other than taking my profits away from the switch. Sorry, it can't happen, especially now.

[CFUG]

Well, I guess it's all relative. Basically, what I'm thinking is that it is hard to understand someone who wants home automation on a well-executed level at X-10 price point. Call me narrow-minded but automation ranks as a luxury with me so I spend accordingly. If I can't do it correctly or it's worth is questionable, then don't attempt until better circumstances happen.

OK, your story hits home with me. Honestly, I have jacked-around vendors through my work only to find my employer doesn't have good intentions to follow-through. This was of recent though and directly linked to economic uncertainty. I really think that's what's driving some of the weirdness seen here (?)

[lippavisual]

That's exactly my point. Luxurious things should cost some $$$. I completely understand beating people up on price, I do it everyday to my distributors. But only to a certain extent. If they tell me its as low as they can go, then I accept it and pay what it is, if it's what I need.

Take TV costs for example, one of my distributors gives me cost pricing practically at the same sale prices as Best Buy and the like. I always say, "Hey, where did my margins go!!

[ILoveC4]

All I can say is you get what you pay for most of the time. There are instances where people try to overcharge for services, but by and large a cheaper price is a cheaper product. People argue about the equipment being the same, but none of the equipment works at all if it isn't installed and programmed properly.

On this type of stuff, luxury items, it is best to just get out your checkbook and then enjoy the product.

[mercedes]

I look around at some dealers that are failing and most of them are the ones that continue to cut costs looking for a quick sale. My wife and I are building a new home. We are putting in a pool and got bids from a few companies. We had some family ties to one of them and had bought a hot tub from their store a few years ago. They wern't the cheapest, but we figured we would go with them because of history. I started looking into references and everyone said they would do anything they needed to get the deal, but the install was horrible and the service after the fact was bad. They went out of business a few weeks after we made our choice to use a smaller dealer which had 100% satisfied customers but a higher price. This original company did a hard push for me to put 50% of the pool price down just two weeks before they closed. You know they knew what was coming and they were just trying to get what they could.

The point here is that a good dealer that is going to be around for a long time isn't the one that make a single sale to a customer because their price is the cheapest. Those guys come and go and in hard financial times, they are the first to close up shop.

I can understand that some people need to cut costs, but come on, we are talking about home automation, audio/video and computer stuff here. In hard times it is pretty easy to do without these things if you cannot afford to do it the correct way. Its not like we are talking about food on someones table, except the food on the table of the dealer's family that looses business to a fly by night.