Best Security Panel for C4

[AS2]

is there a consensus on which Security System interfaces best with Control4? I am pricing some for a customer but I'd like to get a sense of what works best first. Thanks.

AS2

[maxspivak]

The consensus on the other forum is that GE Concord and Advent are the top dogs.

I'm still waiting for my Concord 4 panel to get installed.

[TrikinCurt]

We use GE CaddX without any problems. It all comes down to your budget, CaddX is the cheaper of the GE products and works fine.

Curt

[gmaniax]

I'm wanting to change out my current security panel for a more C4 suitable one. Does the CaddX interface with C4 to trigger events based on the sensors integrated in the security system? For example, trigger motion detectors in a hallway will turn on the lights in that hallway?

Does any security system do this better than others? Concord or any of the others?

thanks!

GM

[sfleck]

see, here is the big problem with doing things this way.

what you really want is the security panel to trigger events directly on the C4 system. i want my programming to be done on the panel, like an Elk M1G. that way i can use the security keypad to trigger events. as well as temp sensors, zone conditions, time of day, time of year, etc. etc.

also, with a power outage, the last thing i would want is some important notification not working because the C4 controller is down. when the security panel can stay up for hours, if not days, during a power outage. the C4 will require a UPS and you'll be lucky to get an hour uptime.

i don't want to discuss the issue of reliabilty either :/

that being said, and not a possibilty, i would still recommmend getting something much more interactive and powerful for a panel and recommend the Elk M1 Gold.

steve

[jamman]

One thing to keep in mind with security integration: The security panel is there to do it's thing, security. It will always do this the way it was intended. If you integrate it with C4, programming of lights to turn on or off based on triggers or arming conditions works well. Why would someone be concerned about lights or other automated events not being triggered during a power outage? At least the security system will function as it should and secure the premises.

We have been integrating security with various system for years with no problems. Even with an AMX system, a power outage will prevent the lights to be triggerred and everything else that is high voltage. If you need to monitor something important, you can certainly get feedback into the automation system, but it should only be that, and you should never depend on the automation system alone for this, even with a high end system like AMX.

The best design will have all subsystems operate stand-alone, and the control system will add the proper smarts, logic and control of the subsystems. If one system goes down, you don't have a mess on your hands.

A good example is the C4 lighting.. They will always work as a stand alone dimmers, so the customer may loose some scene features, but he will at least be able to control the lights from the dimmers in case the controller goes down. HVAC is the same.

We started using the GE Networx 8E system with C4 and it works well. The price is right and it can also do access control as well. We have a few jobs which we are monitoring, through the security panel, boiler failures and emergency power conditions. This was done directly on the security system. The AMX system can provide the user with remote monitoring, but we don't rely on the automation system for this important task.

Jamman

[sfleck]

jamman,

i agree pretty much with what you said.

i also want my SECURITY panel to be a MONITORING panel. i want a panel that can be a great security panel, but also notify me when any of the monitored subsystems have problems. i also want to be able to remotely see the status of all things monitored by the panel (temperatures inside/outside, attic temp etc.) here in Muskoka where i live boathouse bubblers are extremely important and a cottage owner wants to know they are working.

added features of a an intelligent panel can be things like the ability to send email. notifying parents of kids arriving home etc. i would prefer these things managed/controlled by the security panel than by a subsystem (like the C4 controller).

[maxspivak]

sfleck, take a look at alarm.com -- they do email & web notifications, etc.

I just had a GE Concord 4 panel installed last Friday. It interfaces with Control4, so when I get to it, I can program events in C4 with door contacts, etc.

Ping me if you need more information.

Max

[sfleck]

thanks Max.

but as i was saying, i would prefer to have ALL the programming/rules/scripts etc., on the security control panel. i can do the same thing with the Elk M1G as you're doing with GE .... it's just that i would prefer to have the security panel operate the lighting, HVAC, security etc. directly based on its own events/triggers ... rather than have the C4 controller warehouse/execute the programming based on events/triggers signaled from the security panel.

i understand that cannot be done yet (maybe never). i just have not bought into the C4 controller + security panel integegration concept yet. maybe after i see a C4 thermostat released i'll look again.

i prefer a single intelligent security panel ... one that integrates the thermostats, lighting, temp sensors, touchscreen interfaces, etc. but is also made to be a powerful security panel.

it would be much better (for me anyway) if i could send a command TO the C4 controller from the Elk M1G to say:

if Dark, Turn On Porch Light

or,

if Sally Home, Play Sally Favorite Tunes

i look to the C4 controller to just be a powerful, reliable A/V and lighting controller. nothing more except play nicely with other intelligent controllers.

[Samer Shami]

it would be much better (for me anyway) if i could send a command TO the C4 controller from the Elk M1G to say:

if Dark, Turn On Porch Light

or,

if Sally Home, Play Sally Favorite Tunes

i look to the C4 controller to just be a powerful, reliable A/V and lighting controller. nothing more except play nicely with other intelligent controllers.

I must take this opportunity to point out that Control4 can actually do what you describe, and more so, it can already do it with the Elk M1G panel. Now you may prefer to have the majority of security/lighting/temp automation within the Elk. However, you can also make the status of the contact sensors available to the Control4 system to act upon. You mentioned two examples. A photodiode hooked to the security system to detect daylight can provide feed back to C4, and you can then program it to turn on/off the lights. In addition, if the event "sally home" is triggered by a motion sensor, or even a sequence of other contact sensors, Control4 will know about it, and you can get it to trigger the appropriate music track.

Does this mean you should put all the logic in C4 or in the Elk? Depends what you are familiar with, and which will prove the easiest to tailor in subsequent months.

You have made some valid comments as to why you think the Elk security panel is the black box that sits on top of the integration hierarchy, and why you place Control4 as just another subsystem that sits underneath that. From what I can deduce, reliability is a chief concern for you.

My Crestron background has taught me to consider the automation system is THE black box that sits on top of the hierarchy - not the security system, not the lighting system, not the climate control, not anything else. However this was done because Crestron had thoroughly proved itself in the market over many years. From the sounds of it, you feel that Control4 is not as "market tested" as your Elk panel, hence you place it at a lower level. I am not here to change this opinion. What I want to urge you to consider is that Control4 is a very capable system. It would be of great benefit if you experimented with C4 in non-critical areas until you can improve your confidence in Control4 - and the level of its reliability compared to other approaches. For example, why not program C4 to do those events you listed (because they are non-critical) and monitor how reliable it is over the months at doing these tasks?

[sfleck]

thanks Samer ... those are VERY wise words.

i will continue my experiments with the Control4 controller and hopefully it will gain the same trust as i have developed in the Elk system.

one thing for sure, i cannot go wrong with these two on the backbone