Time2Jet Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Guys - I’ve been struggling since November with consistent display via Zone 2 out of my Denon X8500 extended via a balun. The balun is state of the art, so it’s not that, it’s just the whole “too many handshakes” and add a Roku Ultra (plagued with known issues when extended out of any Zone 2 on an AVR). AVPro recommended (after a month of troubleshooting and replacing and upgrading the baluns) that I instead use an actual matrix. I don’t necessarily “matrix” anything but a BluRay player. All other sources are dedicated to a particular Zone (TiVo’s, Roku’s, C4 OSD). Zone 1 is solid. Never issues. Should I bother with a separate matrix? It would be an AVPro 6x2. Or should I just add another AVR to act as the switch for the second display. That Zone has Sonos, so no need for amping any Audio just to switch and extend HDMI. I assume another AVR will perform fine with only 1 zone out and I could add a second BluRay (and still be under the cost of a good matrix) or add cheap 2x1 switch for the BluRay. If it’s an AVR, I know Denon integrates beautifully... what else integrates well. Just need a very simple AVR capable of passing HDR. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 I thought you were matrixing both rokus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 The Rokus, albeit sources from the Denon, are not "shared" . Just like the two TiVo's they are bound to their respective rooms and output only to their respective zone. So technically, not "matrixed" per se. Only the BluRay is shared Mitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Nope. That's not how it works. They are matrixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 I'm sorry. Can you explain what you mean Mitch? It really shouldn't apply at all here. If you are saying that since I can program any input to output to either of the displays, then yes... matrixed. I don't do that (except in the existing case of the BluRay and that's going away). If I DO actually do a Matrix, versus a second AVR to combine and send output the the Master, then agreed, it would be possible to grab any source to either display. But again, I don't need that other than it would save me an HDMI splitter or a Second BluRay. If I add a second AVR here's how it looks: AVR 1 - Living Room Sources - TiVo 1, Roku 1, C4 OSD, ATV 4K 1, BluRay AVR 2- Master Bedroom Sources - TiVo 2, Roku 2, ATV 4K 2 If I decide I need THAT particular BluRay to the Master, I will I will use a 1x2 splitter, otherwise I'll buy a second BluRay. In a matrix situation, I would be able to grab any of the sources and output them to any display. I don't have any interest in that. I was using the AVR to really just combine the sources dedicated to each room to send out via HDMI to their destinations over baluns. When I think "Matrix" I think how I had the BluRay (could be output to either Zone). The entire reason for this is that Zone 2 on any AVR is troublesome at times. You may never have an issue, or they could be plaguing. Mine are plaguing. And I have great EDID management and still have issues. The matrix eliminates all of that as does the second AVR route. What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 You have a matrix. I don't care what you call it. You are using the reciever as a matrix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 Ok. So back to my question. How much will I gain from a quality matrix versus just adding a second AVR to feed the sources out to the Master? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 58 minutes ago, time2jet said: Ok. So back to my question. How much will I gain from a quality matrix versus just adding a second AVR to feed the sources out to the Master? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk a quality matrix will have much more edid management option. This will allow you to help compensate for long runs edid issue between devices and sources. Time2Jet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 Thanks Matt, Mitch. That’s what I thought would be the suggestion. Last month I replaced the two AVPro EX100-444-KIT gen1 with gen2’s (better EDID management). AVPro has great support and sent the upgraded at no cost. That didn’t fix the issue, but now I notice I’m getting dropouts very sporadically (once an hour?) on one of the new ones. Where should I start? I figure easiest thing is to just swap the baluns (one is fine) and see if I can reproduce on the other display. Or if something in the path to the faulty zone is bad if the good balun acts up. This could either pinpoint or exclude the balun. This is always the hardest problem to solve short of a $2000 meter. I can’t win with this whole thing lately. Any tricks? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share Posted February 23, 2020 I spent some time yesterday with the balun situation. As of this minute, things are working as expected. I copied the display EDID for each path and saved in the baluns. I’m sure at some point it will break again, but not today (fingers crossed). Until the November Roku updates, I had been golden for 8 months. For now, I’ll just wait for a break. Even though I’m now able to display to both zones with any input, there’s still some very sporadic 5 second dropouts. (2 this morning over about 3-4 hours). Zone 2 path only. I swapped the two baluns last night to eliminate a balun issue and I feel like I have, since I was still getting them via Zone 2 only. Denon issue?, cable runs to zone 2 or HDMI cables?, just not sure. I know it’s not necessarily the devices, because it’s happened on all of them. I did a skip back on the devices and they definitely were sending info during the dropouts. I don’t want to, but can live with this if I must. I wouldn’t want to have to swap each element one at a time and wait for results. I’d be 3 months of troubleshooting. I’m likely going to add a matrix, direct HDBaseT or HDMI to HDBaseT, but that’s a big investment so I’ll hold out for a major break. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, time2jet said: I spent some time yesterday with the balun situation. As of this minute, things are working as expected. I copied the display EDID for each path and saved in the baluns. I’m sure at some point it will break again, but not today (fingers crossed). Until the November Roku updates, I had been golden for 8 months. For now, I’ll just wait for a break. Even though I’m now able to display to both zones with any input, there’s still some very sporadic 5 second dropouts. (2 this morning over about 3-4 hours). Zone 2 path only. I swapped the two baluns last night to eliminate a balun issue and I feel like I have, since I was still getting them via Zone 2 only. Denon issue?, cable runs to zone 2 or HDMI cables?, just not sure. I know it’s not necessarily the devices, because it’s happened on all of them. I did a skip back on the devices and they definitely were sending info during the dropouts. I don’t want to, but can live with this if I must. I wouldn’t want to have to swap each element one at a time and wait for results. I’d be 3 months of troubleshooting. I’m likely going to add a matrix, direct HDBaseT or HDMI to HDBaseT, but that’s a big investment so I’ll hold out for a major break. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk are both the tvs connected identically speced feature wise? similar models/brands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 also what kind of hdmis on everything and lengths? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share Posted February 23, 2020 are both the tvs connected identically speced feature wise? similar models/brands Thanks Matt. They’re both Samsung QLEDS. Q9FN (2018 model) & Q900R (2019 model). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share Posted February 23, 2020 also what kind of hdmis on everything and lengths? Sorry Matt. Missed this one. All are certified BJC best current series. Longest is 3’. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Lowe Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 you might try some 6ft cables its strange but it has helped me in the best with weird issues like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share Posted February 23, 2020 you might try some 6ft cables its strange but it has helped me in the best with weird issues like that. Interesting. I’m sure there is just about every size in our shop. Of course, for this very reason, I tried to keep everything as short as possible ...including the inputs physically closest to the outputs on the Denon. But I’ll try that Matt. It’s definitely an easy enough thing to try. Who knows?! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 you might try some 6ft cables its strange but it has helped me in the best with weird issues like that. You need some signal loss sometimes... Matt Lowe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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