Roon

[Time2Jet]

Installing now. Sounds like no point installing the updated C4 driver to get HDMI binding option?

See what the updated build does in terms of the dropback audio you’ve been experiencing first.


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[elee532]

Will do. It's sporadic. So could be days or weeks before it happens again. Roon is looking into it for me as well, BTW.

[88Tiger88]

Can Nucleus support USB DAC like DAP model DX220 from iBasso?

[Time2Jet]

Can Nucleus support USB DAC like DAP model DX220 from iBasso?

Head over to the Roonlabs forum. I know there have been issues with the Android ecosystem, so I don’t specifically know where this has landed or if the DX220 can fully integrate. What I think you’ll find is that they don’t play well together yet, but I know for certain there are plenty of Roon users integrating android based DAPs with limited capability workarounds. It’s too bad, because the DX220 is a really awesome piece. If you’ve already invested in the DX, it’d be a lot to spend on the addition of a Nucleus and it not perform like each is designed.


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[jayfix]

Do you need to have a Nucleus if you already have a NAS with all of your content stored on it, which is directly hooked into the Control4 amp?  If not, what is required.  I am really only looking for an alternative interface for metadata purposes.

[Time2Jet]

11 hours ago, jayfix said:

Do you need to have a Nucleus if you already have a NAS with all of your content stored on it, which is directly hooked into the Control4 amp?  If not, what is required.  I am really only looking for an alternative interface for metadata purposes.

You’ll need a Nucleus of you wish to fully integrate Roon into Control4. (ie Use directly from C4 interfaces).  You can certainly run Roon independent of Control4.  If you haven’t trialed it yet, here is my link.  I’d you use this link, you can get a forum member discount on a Nuceus. Ask any questions you’d like. Sorry, since   Tapatalk is down, so the fastest way to get me is rfaris@thestereoshopinc.com. 
 

https://roonlabs.com/r/RQeEz3CN30ulNwifCuTtNg

[GregCAMS]

@time2jetJust catching up on this topic.  Currently have the Tidal family system with integrated with Control4.  For 3 of the guest rooms and bathrooms there are keypads tied to playlists created on Tidal and thru the C4 Audio Matrix.  It is a bit of a pain to manage.  If I was to get a Nucleus+ and integrate with Control4 can multiple zones be configured such that the playlists are designated to specific rooms/zones?  Here is an example

• Guest Bedroom/Bathroom 1 - 3 Button Keypads with 3 distinct playlists
• Guest Bedroom/Bathroom 2 - 3 Button Keypad with 3 distinct playlists different from #1
• Guest Bedroom/Bathroom 3 - 3 Button Keypad with 3 distinct playlists different from #1 & #2
• Master Bathroom - 3 Button Keypad with distinct playlists different from #1, 2, and 3

The zones would need to be where they play only in the zone selected via the keypads.  The other zones in the house (18 in total) would be controlled elsewhere via C4 iOS app or NEEO remotes.  Lastly, the ability to select and play multiple zones on the same stream in common areas when needed (i.e. patio, bbq, pool, kitchen, dining room).  

I'm just discovering Roon but would like to see if this is possible.  I orgiinally looked at Autonomic but feel this may be a better option.  

 

Thanks for any input or advice

[DLite]

2 minutes ago, gregheard said:

@time2jetJust catching up on this topic.  Currently have the Tidal family system with integrated with Control4.  For 3 of the guest rooms and bathrooms there are keypads tied to playlists created on Tidal and thru the C4 Audio Matrix.  It is a bit of a pain to manage.  If I was to get a Nucleus+ and integrate with Control4 can multiple zones be configured such that the playlists are designated to specific rooms/zones?  Here is an example

• Guest Bedroom/Bathroom 1 - 3 Button Keypads with 3 distinct playlists
• Guest Bedroom/Bathroom 2 - 3 Button Keypad with 3 distinct playlists different from #1
• Guest Bedroom/Bathroom 3 - 3 Button Keypad with 3 distinct playlists different from #1 & #2
• Master Bathroom - 3 Button Keypad with distinct playlists different from #1, 2, and 3

The zones would need to be where they play only in the zone selected via the keypads.  The other zones in the house (18 in total) would be controlled elsewhere via C4 iOS app or NEEO remotes.  Lastly, the ability to select and play multiple zones on the same stream in common areas when needed (i.e. patio, bbq, pool, kitchen, dining room).  

I'm just discovering Roon but would like to see if this is possible.  I orgiinally looked at Autonomic but feel this may be a better option.  

 

Thanks for any input or advice

As far as I have been able to tell, the Roon driver does not support programmatically calling playlists from Roon.  You would have to call playlists from a touch screen, C4 app, or the Roon app itself.  

As an unrelated aside, after upgrading all our touch screens to T4s from T3s, scrolling through long lists of artists/albums/tracks in the Roon driver no longer crashes the touch screen; therefore, the touch screen interface is now much more reliable.  I realize that doesn't help you if you really want keypad functionality though.

 

[GregCAMS]

9 hours ago, DLite said:

As far as I have been able to tell, the Roon driver does not support programmatically calling playlists from Roon.  You would have to call playlists from a touch screen, C4 app, or the Roon app itself.  

As an unrelated aside, after upgrading all our touch screens to T4s from T3s, scrolling through long lists of artists/albums/tracks in the Roon driver no longer crashes the touch screen; therefore, the touch screen interface is now much more reliable.  I realize that doesn't help you if you really want keypad functionality though.

 

Thanks for that information.  I may forego this since I replaced all but one of my touchscreens with Josh.ai.  I never used the T3's in the house other than to arm and disarm the house at the garage entry and use the Micro's 2-3 dozen times a day.  Liked the Roon metadata and presentation of catalogs but may just forgo it if it doesn't have that functionality.  The guest rooms have the keypads with quick buttons to the playlists to enjoy when getting ready for the day or just relaxing in the room so was trying to see if this was a better option than what I have done with Tidal/Control4 integration along with the C4 audio matrix.  Thanks again.

[DLite]

8 hours ago, gregheard said:

Thanks for that information.  I may forego this since I replaced all but one of my touchscreens with Josh.ai.  I never used the T3's in the house other than to arm and disarm the house at the garage entry and use the Micro's 2-3 dozen times a day.  Liked the Roon metadata and presentation of catalogs but may just forgo it if it doesn't have that functionality.  The guest rooms have the keypads with quick buttons to the playlists to enjoy when getting ready for the day or just relaxing in the room so was trying to see if this was a better option than what I have done with Tidal/Control4 integration along with the C4 audio matrix.  Thanks again.

That makes sense. Our household is all-Sonos and heavy on touch screens, so we are in one of Roon's sweet spots.  

The only other thing you might want to check before throwing in the towel is the Roon app itself. If you have a free Saturday afternoon, I think you can download a free 30-day trial, or maybe pay $10 for one month of access.  I end up using the iOS and desktop Roon app more than anything else, because I find it so powerful and fun to use.  

 

[GregCAMS]

19 hours ago, DLite said:

That makes sense. Our household is all-Sonos and heavy on touch screens, so we are in one of Roon's sweet spots.  

The only other thing you might want to check before throwing in the towel is the Roon app itself. If you have a free Saturday afternoon, I think you can download a free 30-day trial, or maybe pay $10 for one month of access.  I end up using the iOS and desktop Roon app more than anything else, because I find it so powerful and fun to use.  

 

Thanks for that. information @DLite.  Did you get a Nucleus or Nucleus+?  The other alternative is using Roon with my home office setup.  Just picked up some Focal Headphones and Matrix-Audio DAC/Amp that's Roon Ready.  Trying to see if makes sense to do that only since I have been WFH for 4 years and spend 50-60 hrs a week with music listening that way.  And if so is Roon such that it really needs a Nucleus to not eat up a ton of computing resources from my MacBook.  Any advice is appreciated!

[DLite]

1 hour ago, gregheard said:

Thanks for that. information @DLite.  Did you get a Nucleus or Nucleus+?  The other alternative is using Roon with my home office setup.  Just picked up some Focal Headphones and Matrix-Audio DAC/Amp that's Roon Ready.  Trying to see if makes sense to do that only since I have been WFH for 4 years and spend 50-60 hrs a week with music listening that way.  And if so is Roon such that it really needs a Nucleus to not eat up a ton of computing resources from my MacBook.  Any advice is appreciated!

We have a Nucleus+, because we are powering 12 zones for Roon and wanted C4 integration.  If you aren't doing multi-room streaming to many different zones, you don't need the Nucleus+. And, if you aren't doing C4 integration, you don't even really need a Nucleus.  In that case, you're much better off running Roon on an existing computer or on a dedicated (but vastly cheaper) box that runs Roon.  The Roon forum features a bunch of people who've put together their own inexpensive boxes to run Roon -- if you want to go that route, I would ask for some ideas there.  However, I would probably first just try it on your MacBook and see how it goes.

[Topspin14m]

On 9/1/2021 at 3:23 PM, DLite said:

We have a Nucleus+, because we are powering 12 zones for Roon and wanted C4 integration.  If you aren't doing multi-room streaming to many different zones, you don't need the Nucleus+. And, if you aren't doing C4 integration, you don't even really need a Nucleus.  In that case, you're much better off running Roon on an existing computer or on a dedicated (but vastly cheaper) box that runs Roon.  The Roon forum features a bunch of people who've put together their own inexpensive boxes to run Roon -- if you want to go that route, I would ask for some ideas there.  However, I would probably first just try it on your MacBook and see how it goes.

Is there no way to integrate C4 with a Roon server off a QNAP NAS (assuming the NAS has specs equal to or greater than the Nucleus)?

Also, if you have 12 zones of Sonos, but wouldn't ever be playing music simultaneously in more than 6, can you use the Nucleus or will it not let you add all 12 audio zones?  

I have a Roon server off my NAS and am planning to integrate with C4, but I guess I may be buying a Nucleus (or plus)...

Thanks!!

[DLite]

23 hours ago, Topspin14m said:

Is there no way to integrate C4 with a Roon server off a QNAP NAS (assuming the NAS has specs equal to or greater than the Nucleus)?

Also, if you have 12 zones of Sonos, but wouldn't ever be playing music simultaneously in more than 6, can you use the Nucleus or will it not let you add all 12 audio zones?  

I have a Roon server off my NAS and am planning to integrate with C4, but I guess I may be buying a Nucleus (or plus)...

Thanks!!

As far as I know, the Roon C4 driver requires a Nucleus and will not work with any other Roon server configuration. 
 

I dimly recall my dealer saying that the Nucleus could handle 3 simultaneous streams with DSP going, but more than that requires the Plus.  I am not super confident about my recollection though.  @time2jet may be able to give you a better answer to that question.

 

[Topspin14m]

30 minutes ago, DLite said:

As far as I know, the Roon C4 driver requires a Nucleus and will not work with any other Roon server configuration. 
 

I dimly recall my dealer saying that the Nucleus could handle 3 simultaneous streams with DSP going, but more than that requires the Plus.  I am not super confident about my recollection though.  @time2jet may be able to give you a better answer to that question.

 

Thanks!  It’s rated for 6 streams, I believe.  But what I’m really wondering is if you can connect 10+ zones to a Nucleus (even if you cant group more than 6 at once).  It’s all kind of academic now though because I just bit the bullet and bought a Nucleus Plus…I really want the Sonos integration cleaned up for C4,

[DLite]

19 hours ago, Topspin14m said:

Thanks!  It’s rated for 6 streams, I believe.  But what I’m really wondering is if you can connect 10+ zones to a Nucleus (even if you cant group more than 6 at once).  It’s all kind of academic now though because I just bit the bullet and bought a Nucleus Plus…I really want the Sonos integration cleaned up for C4,

I see.  I don't know the answer to that question. What you say makes sense -- only the simultaneously playing streams may matter -- but I don't know enough about what is going on under the hood to do more than guess. In any event, I hope you enjoy the Plus as much as we have!!  It is very nice to have Sonos integrated into C4.

[Topspin14m]

Finally integrated Roon yesterday.  Wow what an improvement with a Sonos/C4 integrated system.  Can search the whole Tidal library on the T4 panels.  Finally get what I wanted with C4 and Sonos.  Very speedy search capabilities.  Really awesome/extremely happy.  Would highly recommend if you use Sonos and C4.  Basically a must have. 

[South Africa C4 user]

1 hour ago, Topspin14m said:

Finally integrated Roon yesterday.  Wow what an improvement with a Sonos/C4 integrated system.  Can search the whole Tidal library on the T4 panels.  Finally get what I wanted with C4 and Sonos.  Very speedy search capabilities.  Really awesome/extremely happy.  Would highly recommend if you use Sonos and C4.  Basically a must have. 

Looks good!  However, I can do this with the native C4 driver already. I assume that the difference is that I don’t have Sonos and that if you have C4 and Sonos you need Roon to make it behave nicely?

[Time2Jet]

6 hours ago, South Africa C4 user said:

Looks good!  However, I can do this with the native C4 driver already. I assume that the difference is that I don’t have Sonos and that if you have C4 and Sonos you need Roon to make it behave nicely?

Partly the reason.  Roon is a meta server and a DAC amongst its many other attributes.  It has the gold standard meta and dsp and allows incorporating a variety of libraries and just about any type of endpoint as if it were all the same.  In the past there were issues with grouping that have been resolved.  I sell a $2500 Roon Nucleus plus once a week in our HiFi shop, it's very impressive.  The downside is the price for some and the fact that streaming services at this point are limited to Tidal and Quobuz.  

[South Africa C4 user]

11 hours ago, time2jet said:

Partly the reason.  Roon is a meta server and a DAC amongst its many other attributes.  It has the gold standard meta and dsp and allows incorporating a variety of libraries and just about any type of endpoint as if it were all the same.  In the past there were issues with grouping that have been resolved.  I sell a $2500 Roon Nucleus plus once a week in our HiFi shop, it's very impressive.  The downside is the price for some and the fact that streaming services at this point are limited to Tidal and Quobuz.  

Thanks… given my use case (see below) would Roon be worthwhile? And what hardware / software would I need (I have 2 residences):

I moved from Apple Music to Tidal a couple of years ago simply to get decent C4 integration.  I quite like the C4 Tidal user interface.

I practically never play music from Tidal directly (always via C4). 

I have a family Tidal account set up and mainly use playlists connected to buttons in various rooms (the rooms link to the relevant family member so as to minimise the risk of stealing someone else’s feed although a double or triple click of the music button will link to a different Tidal family member and a different playlist).  I have around 15 music zones in both residences but for all intents and purposes, there are only really 7 or 8 zone groups and many of my music buttons will turn on multiple zones.  If a music button is pressed (or double clicked / triple clicked) and that account is already in use somewhere else in the house, the new zone(s) will join the zone group that is playing.  

We virtually never have people at both houses at once and have never (yet) run into a use case where Tidal is trying to play from the same family member’s account across 2 houses.

I have the exact same setup at my main residence and Beach House except that at my main residence I also have around 5,000 tracks on a NAS (from the good old days).  I access these via Control4’s native MyMusic. 

My only real gripe with Tidal is that it sometimes gets the cover art (and other meta data) wrong for less well known artists and it sometimes links the wrong artist to an album (again for lesser known artists with the same or a similar name) and I am too lazy to extend my playlist very often…

In reality, my 2 older daughters don’t use Tidal and have stuck with Apple Music and ShairBridge.

[Time2Jet]

1 hour ago, South Africa C4 user said:

Thanks… given my use case (see below) would Roon be worthwhile? And what hardware / software would I need (I have 2 residences):

I moved from Apple Music to Tidal a couple of years ago simply to get decent C4 integration.  I quite like the C4 Tidal user interface.

I practically never play music from Tidal directly (always via C4). 

I have a family Tidal account set up and mainly use playlists connected to buttons in various rooms (the rooms link to the relevant family member so as to minimise the risk of stealing someone else’s feed although a double or triple click of the music button will link to a different Tidal family member and a different playlist).  I have around 15 music zones in both residences but for all intents and purposes, there are only really 7 or 8 zone groups and many of my music buttons will turn on multiple zones.  If a music button is pressed (or double clicked / triple clicked) and that account is already in use somewhere else in the house, the new zone(s) will join the zone group that is playing.  

We virtually never have people at both houses at once and have never (yet) run into a use case where Tidal is trying to play from the same family member’s account across 2 houses.

I have the exact same setup at my main residence and Beach House except that at my main residence I also have around 5,000 tracks on a NAS (from the good old days).  I access these via Control4’s native MyMusic. 

My only real gripe with Tidal is that it sometimes gets the cover art (and other meta data) wrong for less well known artists and it sometimes links the wrong artist to an album (again for lesser known artists with the same or a similar name) and I am too lazy to extend my playlist very often…

In reality, my 2 older daughters don’t use Tidal and have stuck with Apple Music and ShairBridge.

https://roonlabs.com/r/RQeEz3CN30ulNwifCuTtNg
 

You can trial it here, sans C4 integration as C4 integration requires the Nuceus or Nucleus+ hardware.  But this will give you a feel for what Roon can do for you.  It’s the best way (short of a Nucleus and full C4 integration) to explore the native benefits of Roon. 
 

I’ll follow up when I have a few minutes with regard to the benefits of integrating Roon, but you could be a very good candidate if you can make the investment make sense (I find that the used equipment sells fast and for near retail, so not too much risk).  

For me personally, I am a high fidelity guy.  I love to listen to music in the best possible formats on the best possible equipment and Roon certainly answers the bell there.  The integration is really good nowadays.  My problem is that every time I am fully integrated I’ve had to sell my own Nucleus to meet demand during Covid.  Inventory is much much better today.  

[DLite]

On 12/19/2021 at 3:32 AM, time2jet said:

https://roonlabs.com/r/RQeEz3CN30ulNwifCuTtNg
 

You can trial it here, sans C4 integration as C4 integration requires the Nuceus or Nucleus+ hardware.  But this will give you a feel for what Roon can do for you.  It’s the best way (short of a Nucleus and full C4 integration) to explore the native benefits of Roon. 
 

I’ll follow up when I have a few minutes with regard to the benefits of integrating Roon, but you could be a very good candidate if you can make the investment make sense (I find that the used equipment sells fast and for near retail, so not too much risk).  

For me personally, I am a high fidelity guy.  I love to listen to music in the best possible formats on the best possible equipment and Roon certainly answers the bell there.  The integration is really good nowadays.  My problem is that every time I am fully integrated I’ve had to sell my own Nucleus to meet demand during Covid.  Inventory is much much better today.  

IMHO, the magic of Roon is in its app, which is fantastic. It's like flipping through CD liner notes, but with every imaginable kind of hyperlink.  Roon's music recommendation engine is also the best I've ever used, and it uncovers similarities that I would not have imagined.  Finally, I think Roon handles classical music better than any other streaming service, with the possible exception of the Classical-only services (e.g., Classical Archives).  You can organize by composer, composition, album, artist, conductor, etc etc.  

If I just used Roon via the C4 interface rather than via the Roon app, I think I would find it pretty ordinary compared to C4 native alternatives.  (Since I am a Sonos user, there are no C4 native alternatives for me, but I understand that is not your situation.)