Neeo Wifi Issues

[CTMatthew]

Hello all, 

As we've been deploying Neeos we've started to accumulate a number of sites that have been experiencing some pretty bad issues and to date we can't seem to find the root cause in working with both C4 and Access Networks, both of which are currently treating these as one-off issues to be resolved. We are starting to feel the issue is systemic and the hunch is that the wifi hardware in the Neeo itself may be the issue. 

Basically the remote consistently disconnect and have issues reconnecting to the point that they have to be fully reset. When they are functional there are instances where commands are delayed or don't make it through at all. For example a Room Off command won't actually be carried out, but the Neeo itself will behave as though it has and return to the home screen. Touchscreens in the same rooms, also on WiFi, exhibit no such behavior and no other networking issues exist. Some are long standing installations where Neeos have been added later and some are new deployments with Neeos in the design. 

I'm curious if anyone has experienced anything similar and if they've found a solution. 

[mstafford388]

We have dozens of Neeos out there at this point and while they have had some hardware issues mainly related to the screens we have not had issues like you are describing.  Do you separate your 2.4 and 5G SSIDs?  Also, if you've worked with C4 tech support and haven't gotten it solved get with your rep and ask for it to be escalated.  That gets a high level tech on the issue and they basically work it with you until it's solved with really good results. 

[leowalton]

I'm having this issue as well and it's driving me mad.

I've got a Neeo remote at home that works perfectly with a full Ubiquiti Unifi network. C4 don't recommend Unifi but it works fine even with micro-segmentation on the network. I've not even separated the 2.4/5 GHz wireless networks, and I've got the band steering of high performance clients turned on, and it has dropped connection maybe once or twice.

However, I've got a customer with a Neeo and a Draytek network - which C4 don't have an issue with at all - and the remote performance is so bad the customer wants to return the remote. The site has got separate 2.4/5GHz network SSIDs (although if the WiFi stack on the Neeo remote has been properly developed this shouldn't be an issue) and it still keeps dropping out. There's no issue with signal strength and my WiSpy doesn't detect any other hidden interference. I have tried talking to C4 tech support about this, have implemented all their suggestions, but nothing seems to improve performance or stability.

My last chance is to move one of the wireless access points to see if that helps. If I can't get this working the customer wants to return the remote for a full refund, which given that they specifically requested the remote (i.e. I didn't try and sell the remote upgrade to them), is going to be a tricky conversation. 

If anyone has any other suggestions for what might help solve this issue I ma open to any and all suggestions.

[lippavisual]

Have you tried a hidden 2.4 WiFi network just for the remote?

[rayk32]

You definitely should build a separate SSID that is 2.4 Ghz only for your Neeo’s as stated above.  I did that for my Neeo’s and my Qolsys alarm system and I haven’t had any connectivity issues since doing so.

[leowalton]

I do have a hidden 2.4GHz SSID at my customer's house but it doesn't seem to have made a difference. I don't have this on my own network at home and my Neeo works fine. There is obviously something else going on that is not down to the Neeo being pushed onto the 5GHz band.

[CTMatthew]

I'll chime in since I'd started this thread a ways back. The fix that finally worked was adjusting transmit power. This isn't always an easy fix considering AP placement versus where remotes live, but the Neeos seem incapable of choosing when they see two or more APs with the same SSID that are powerful enough to establish a connection. We dialed back the 2.4Ghz Tx power significantly until Neeos could really only see one clear choice for connection. No more issues!

Now obviously this marks them as terrible network clients and the hope is that the hardware is much-improved in some future revision, but ultimately it's not about 2.4Ghz breakout or hidden SSIDs, but simply clearing the airspace of overlap. You should be able to easily test this theory by turning Tx power all the way down on all but the closest AP and see that the issues should immediately cease. 

[leowalton]

Cheers for the insight @CTMatthew and it is something that I have tried but, again, it hasn't made a noticeable difference. However, I do only have one AP setup with the specific 2.4GHz-only SSID so it is the only one that the Neeo would look to connect to. Surely the hardware can't be so poorly implemented that it is affected by any overlapping stations regardless of SSID broadcast? It's fine if you can control all wireless networks in the vicinity, and also have many choices for AP location so you can tune cell size precisely, but in the real world wireless clients have to be able to deal with these things. I am amazed at how poorly developed this is for a premium product. It has cost me several unpaid hours so far in trying to get this to work which I feel is unacceptable.

[CTMatthew]

On 4/20/2021 at 1:53 PM, leowalton said:

Cheers for the insight @CTMatthew and it is something that I have tried but, again, it hasn't made a noticeable difference. However, I do only have one AP setup with the specific 2.4GHz-only SSID so it is the only one that the Neeo would look to connect to. Surely the hardware can't be so poorly implemented that it is affected by any overlapping stations regardless of SSID broadcast? It's fine if you can control all wireless networks in the vicinity, and also have many choices for AP location so you can tune cell size precisely, but in the real world wireless clients have to be able to deal with these things. I am amazed at how poorly developed this is for a premium product. It has cost me several unpaid hours so far in trying to get this to work which I feel is unacceptable.

I obviously can't speak to the precise nature of the hardware faults, but our real world experience with these remotes has lead to a renewed enthusiasm for the SR260.

Of course most problems can be fixed with enough resources poured into them, but that's not why we're in business. We want to deploy reliable solutions that make our clients' lives easier and result in gladly-paid invoices and glowing reviews. We never send out Neeos without SR260s in the van as backup. Because frankly I'd rather swap in a cheaper remote than set a brick of money on fire trying to get it to work. We just prep the client now that they're WiFi and that we can't control for variables other than our network and that we'll gladly refund or deduct the difference and so far we've been good. And they do work in 80% or better of the deployments, but still better to be on the safe side. 

[mstafford388]

The other thing you can do is block the mac of the neeo from other access points you don't want them accidentally jumping to.  I've done that on a job or two where they were hopping, and it's solved issues. immediately.  No need to change broadcast power, ssid's or anything else with the rest of the network.  

[OceanDad]

Those of us who were Kickstarter backers of the original Neeo had serious reservations about Control4 trying to use it as a fast track to a new remote control.  There are many things that I love about the Control4 ecosystem, but Neeo is definitely not one of them.  

[leowalton]

14 hours ago, mstafford388 said:

The other thing you can do is block the mac of the neeo from other access points you don't want them accidentally jumping to.  I've done that on a job or two where they were hopping, and it's solved issues. immediately.  No need to change broadcast power, ssid's or anything else with the rest of the network.  

This shouldn't be an issue as there's only one AP that has the separate 2.4GHZ-only SSID on it, and the Neeo only has the details of the 2.4GHz-only SSID on it, so it shouldn't even try any of the other APs. I'll try MAC address blocking just in case but it shouldn't make a difference.

[leowalton]

15 hours ago, OceanDad said:

Those of us who were Kickstarter backers of the original Neeo had serious reservations about Control4 trying to use it as a fast track to a new remote control.  There are many things that I love about the Control4 ecosystem, but Neeo is definitely not one of them.  

It would have probably helped if they had implemented ZigBee support on the Neeo. Seeing as it shares the same frequency range as WiFi it shouldn't have been that hard to do. That's not to say that I haven't had issues with ZigBee, but at least it's a common standard and should be more reliable (and most of those problems have been down to interference and channel overlap which are not necessarily ZigBee's fault). There's just too many variables with WiFi and without better implementation the Neeo is going to cause occasional headaches. Oh well, guess I'll be sticking with SR-260s for now then!

[mstafford388]

2 hours ago, leowalton said:

This shouldn't be an issue as there's only one AP that has the separate 2.4GHZ-only SSID on it, and the Neeo only has the details of the 2.4GHz-only SSID on it, so it shouldn't even try any of the other APs. I'll try MAC address blocking just in case but it shouldn't make a difference.

That was more an alternate solution than a separate SSID.  I'm with you, I wish it was on Zigbee but it was acquired by C4 as a wifi remote and they wanted to roll that thing out quickly.  It would be an entirely different chip even though they are both on 2.4.  Zigbee when implemented properly works every....single...time.  

[RyanE]

Zigbee would not be appropriate for a remote that transmits coverart, and that can browse including images into your music services, etc.

I think you overestimate the bandwidth of Zigbee by about 100x...  It's meant for *very small*, mainly infrequent messages, not for images or browsing.

RyanE

[dinom]

I used to have an RTI remote that was dual radio, both Zigbee and WiFi. WiFi was used for cover art, and Zigbee was used for sending commands quickly and reliably. Seemed to work pretty well. 

Having said that, my Neeo works perfectly on my WiFi, so the issues described here must be isolated.  

[tekki70]

we had 2 clients that were having connection issues with thier neeo remotes. we already had 2 seperate ids for 2.4 and 5, all i did was take out special character in the ssid and change the security to wpa2 mixed. client hasnt called back in 3 weeks so far.

[penn65000]

On 4/21/2021 at 5:10 PM, RyanE said:

Zigbee would not be appropriate for a remote that transmits coverart, and that can browse including images into your music services, etc.

I think you overestimate the bandwidth of Zigbee by about 100x...  It's meant for *very small*, mainly infrequent messages, not for images or browsing.

RyanE

Yeah but it is better than a crappy TI radio — which the neeos have. Awful remote. 

[RyanE]

4 hours ago, penn65000 said:

Yeah but it is better than a crappy TI radio — which the neeos have. Awful remote. 

It certainly has issues for some people.

That said, person who responds to the thread a year later: I have absolutely no issue with the half dozen I have around my house.

They are locked to their own 2.4 GHz SSID, can't roam, etc., and never fall off the network.

RyanE

[penn65000]

12 hours ago, RyanE said:

It certainly has issues for some people.

That said, person who responds to the thread a year later: I have absolutely no issue with the half dozen I have around my house.

They are locked to their own 2.4 GHz SSID, can't roam, etc., and never fall off the network.

RyanE

Not sure what your issue is with responding a year later.  Pretty obnoxious. Esp for C4 employee. 

[RyanE]

42 minutes ago, penn65000 said:

Not sure what your issue is with responding a year later.  Pretty obnoxious. Esp for C4 employee. 

As I've mentioned a number of times on here, I do not speak for Control4 on these forums.

My issue is really that there are plenty of other more recent discussions of the Neeo that address the Wifi performance, that would be a more appropriate place to vent.

It is not an 'awful remote' by any stretch.  Most installations are not having constant wifi issues, even with the limitations of the TI chip used in the Neeo.

And yeah, I can be obnoxious.  At the end of the day, hopefully the value of my contributions here will be found useful enough to overcome that.

RyanE