Noob question - totally confused about Amp vs Receiver vs Matrix...

[mod220]

Looking into C4 again, and am very confused about AV equipment they offer.   The catalog has a "Amplifier and Receiver" section, but I only see Triad amps...Its my understand the amps are only good for powering audio (speakers), and a Reciever would be needed for video (TV), which is why we have AVRs for each TV in our home already.    What "Reciever" does C4 offer?  I then look at Matrixes, which appear to distribute Audio and Video, but do they also distribute the power needed?  Lastly, when looking at Controllers, I get the EA1, EA3, EA5 can handle 1, 3, and 5 audio zones respectively, but how then do you have matrixes deliver 8 or 16 unique audio feeds?

[ekohn00]

18 minutes ago, mod220 said:

   What "Reciever" does C4 offer?  

That might be left over from the days they did offer.......  well actually i think it was only a Tuner.....

I believe the matrix is before the Amp...Speakers attach only to Amps.

The dealers here can easily confim.

[eggzlot]

44 minutes ago, mod220 said:

Looking into C4 again, and am very confused about AV equipment they offer.   The catalog has a "Amplifier and Receiver" section, but I only see Triad amps...Its my understand the amps are only good for powering audio (speakers), and a Reciever would be needed for video (TV), which is why we have AVRs for each TV in our home already.    What "Reciever" does C4 offer?  I then look at Matrixes, which appear to distribute Audio and Video, but do they also distribute the power needed?  Lastly, when looking at Controllers, I get the EA1, EA3, EA5 can handle 1, 3, and 5 audio zones respectively, but how then do you have matrixes deliver 8 or 16 unique audio feeds?

Here is the path 

Audio OUT of the Controller into the Audio IN on an Audio Matrix (not video matrix)

Audio OUT of the Audio Matrix and Audio IN to the Multi Channel Amp

Multi Channel Amp has speaker wire OUT to the speakers

The controller will tell what stream to go where.

So if its a ceiling speaker - you do whats above

if you have a local AVR in a room, the audio out on the Audio Matrix goes to an audio input on your local AVR and then those speakers are wired to that AVR

I believe the current Triad Audio Matrix is either 8x8 or 24x24 so that means X inputs in and Y outputs.  If you have more than 8 rooms, you need the 24x24 regardless of the number of inputs.  

Video Matrix - different ball game.  Same concept though without the controller involved.  Cable Boxes/Blu Ray/Streaming box has HDMI going IN to the matrix hardware.  that hardware has ethernet/hdmi out that runs to the local TVs.  There are Video over IP and HDBaseT options so the wiring/hardware is a little different, but the conceptual concept is the same though I know some engineers will start to flame my general summary but when its all confusing, the summary above should help.  And then depending on audio needs you can connection video and audio matrix to play audio in non video rooms, etc.  but again that gets further down the road.

[mod220]

29 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

Here is the path 

Audio OUT of the Controller into the Audio IN on an Audio Matrix (not video matrix)

Audio OUT of the Audio Matrix and Audio IN to the Multi Channel Amp

Multi Channel Amp has speaker wire OUT to the speakers

The controller will tell what stream to go where.

So if its a ceiling speaker - you do whats above

if you have a local AVR in a room, the audio out on the Audio Matrix goes to an audio input on your local AVR and then those speakers are wired to that AVR

I believe the current Triad Audio Matrix is either 8x8 or 24x24 so that means X inputs in and Y outputs.  If you have more than 8 rooms, you need the 24x24 regardless of the number of inputs.  

Video Matrix - different ball game.  Same concept though without the controller involved.  Cable Boxes/Blu Ray/Streaming box has HDMI going IN to the matrix hardware.  that hardware has ethernet/hdmi out that runs to the local TVs.  There are Video over IP and HDBaseT options so the wiring/hardware is a little different, but the conceptual concept is the same though I know some engineers will start to flame my general summary but when its all confusing, the summary above should help.  And then depending on audio needs you can connection video and audio matrix to play audio in non video rooms, etc.  but again that gets further down the road.

thanks, I'm kind of getting it.  my current situation now is I have: 

Basement = TV + AVR, 2 HEOS Zones (Theatre, Pool Table)

Family Room = TV + AVR, 2 HEOS zones (kitchen/family room)

Living Room = AVR, 2 HEOS zones (living room, patio)

Master Bedroom = TV +AVR, 2 HEOS zones (bedroom, bathroom)

Front Porch = HEOS Amp

So I don't have a home run, 9 HEOS Zones, four AVRs, and three TVs....Other than Controllers (EA-3 as director in family room, EA-1 in basement and master for GUI on TV), would I need anything else from Control 4 to control Audio/HEOS?  

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, mod220 said:

thanks, I'm kind of getting it.  my current situation now is I have: 

Basement = TV + AVR, 2 HEOS Zones (Theatre, Pool Table)

Family Room = TV + AVR, 2 HEOS zones (kitchen/family room)

Living Room = AVR, 2 HEOS zones (living room, patio)

Master Bedroom = TV +AVR, 2 HEOS zones (bedroom, bathroom)

Front Porch = HEOS Amp

So I don't have a home run, 9 HEOS Zones, four AVRs, and three TVs....Other than Controllers (EA-3 as director in family room, EA-1 in basement and master for GUI on TV), would I need anything else from Control 4 to control Audio/HEOS?  

Well you need the heos driver.  Those avr with 2 zones for heos - is that built into the Avr or you are putting two heos devices into the inputs?  Is there a zone 2 on the avr?   This could get messy depending on the avr set up and how the rooms are arranged

adding @msgreenfas he is the heos guru 

[msgreenf]

You need the heos master drivers and drivers for each heos avr zone. 

[mod220]

1 hour ago, eggzlot said:

Well you need the heos driver.  Those avr with 2 zones for heos - is that built into the Avr or you are putting two heos devices into the inputs?  Is there a zone 2 on the avr?   This could get messy depending on the avr set up and how the rooms are arranged

adding @msgreenfas he is the heos guru 

Each AVR is 2 zones, so I can play two different streams per AVR

1 hour ago, msgreenf said:

You need the heos master drivers and drivers for each heos avr zone. 

How much are drivers?  How does C4 still charge for drivers  

[msgreenf]

these are free drivers....they are in composer Pro

[msgreenf]

you can play as many streams as HEOS enabled your AMP is 

[mod220]

Thanks, and how much is Composer Pro?

I have two of the Denon AVRs in the same cabinet, even though they have unique names, and different model numbers, it’s impossible to control them independently with my Harmony Elite, i.e when I choose “power on” for “living room AVR” they both turn on.  Will Control have this same issue?

[msgreenf]

16 minutes ago, mod220 said:

Thanks, and how much is Composer Pro?

I have two of the Denon AVRs in the same cabinet, even though they have unique names, and different model numbers, it’s impossible to control them independently with my Harmony Elite, i.e when I choose “power on” for “living room AVR” they both turn on.  Will Control have this same issue?

Composer pro is only available to dealers....you need a dealer to remote in or a local dealer to configure it 

[mod220]

What is reasonable rate for remote dealer?  I see on eBay $75 packages to buy dealer software, I assume that’s not all it takes?

[msgreenf]

4 minutes ago, mod220 said:

What is reasonable rate for remote dealer?  I see on eBay $75 packages to buy dealer software, I assume that’s not all it takes?

I don't think you are seeing packages to buy software. I think those are 1hr of labor. 

Please message me if you would like to discuss my rates. 

[mod220]

I have 60 Caseta, four Schlage locks, and 8 Reolink cameras, do these require unique drivers or just hourly?  Any guess on number of hours?

[msgreenf]

Caseta has a free driver. 

Schlage locks need more info but may not integrate. 

Reolink is a paid driver which I sell 

This is a whole new system so likely more time then adding to an existing. 

[eggzlot]

11 hours ago, mod220 said:

Thanks, and how much is Composer Pro?

I have two of the Denon AVRs in the same cabinet, even though they have unique names, and different model numbers, it’s impossible to control them independently with my Harmony Elite, i.e when I choose “power on” for “living room AVR” they both turn on.  Will Control have this same issue?

You can buy composer home edition

cannot add drivers or devices with it but you can do basically all the programming once a dealer adds the hardware and drivers 

[Matt Lowe]

On 5/6/2021 at 5:02 PM, mod220 said:

Thanks, and how much is Composer Pro?

I have two of the Denon AVRs in the same cabinet, even though they have unique names, and different model numbers, it’s impossible to control them independently with my Harmony Elite, i.e when I choose “power on” for “living room AVR” they both turn on.  Will Control have this same issue?

you can also check out our course to learn more about all that you can do with composer pro. essentially once the devices are added and connected properly you can go to town with the level of automation you want for your home or simply just to fine tune all of the settings. https://www.patreon.com/waltstv

[mod220]

On 5/7/2021 at 7:18 AM, eggzlot said:

You can buy composer home edition

cannot add drivers or devices with it but you can do basically all the programming once a dealer adds the hardware and drivers 

so an installer has to install drivers/devices, but then I can control automation/routines, etc.?  i.e. installer adds my Lutrons and sensors, but I then do "If sensor triggered porch light goes on?"

[mod220]

On 5/7/2021 at 5:03 AM, msgreenf said:

Caseta has a free driver. 

Schlage locks need more info but may not integrate. 

Reolink is a paid driver which I sell 

This is a whole new system so likely more time then adding to an existing. 

actually I have Yale Assure locks...

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, mod220 said:

so an installer has to install drivers/devices, but then I can control automation/routines, etc.?  i.e. installer adds my Lutrons and sensors, but I then do "If sensor triggered porch light goes on?"

I dont have Lutron specifically but I have other motion sensors and yes I can easily say if Axxess motion sensor sensors motion do XYZ.  I dont see why Lutron would be any different.  Something that simple could likely be done with When/Then online programming too (just requiring 4sight subscription).