mercedes Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Hello All,I have been putting up my Christmast display for the past few weeks. We cranked it up yesterday and two of my C4 switches are being crazy. After it has been on a long time, it will not turn off the load. I press the button to turn it off and the led switches to the off position, but the lights stay on. I have a bank of 12 switches two are giving me problems.Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 What is the load on the switch? How many watts? if its overloaded it can cause the relay inside to fuse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercedes Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 I don't think so. I calculated the load and I think I am under 1000 watts, but some items are very old and there was a certain amount of guess work. Does anyone know if there is a device that can be plugged into a receptical that will tell you the load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jberger Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 In rush current (current at startup) can fuse the switch in the on position. You said a band of 12 switches are these all in the same can? If so, you may have overheating issues too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xc420 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Also, removing the metal tabs to put them in multi-gang boxes de-rates them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Also, removing the metal tabs to put them in multi-gang boxes de-rates them.This is try for C4 dimmers but not for C4 switches. I don't think that there would be any overheating with C4 switches in a multi-gang install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Myself and one other user have experienced this with next to no load on the device. I have tried two units and the dealer has no clue. Pretty sad. I don't have time to put my offending switch in another circuit to prove this out. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jberger Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 You can use a killawatt meter to check current use, but it doesn't meter inrush current very accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 ^Point taken- it's worth actually measuring. I think I'm looking at it like typical undercabinet lights don't blow a 15amp braeker usually so why can't the C4 switch function properly under this condition? I have no idea about the OP's Holiday light load... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henniae Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 ^Point taken- it's worth actually measuring. I think I'm looking at it like typical undercabinet lights don't blow a 15amp braeker usually so why can't the C4 switch function properly under this condition? I have no idea about the OP's Holiday light load...The C4 switch has a SPST relay in it. That relay is rated for a certain size load. The load that the relay is rated for is less than what a typical 15 amp circuit provide. Because the relay in the C4 switch is rated for less than the draw of a 15 amp breaker it is possible to pull more current through the C4 switch than would take to trip a 15 amp breaker. This is why the breaker would not trip.Some loads like an incandescent light for example can draw much more current on startup than during normal usage. This inrush current can be more than what the C4 relay is capable of handling. If you pull more current across the contacts of the relay than it can handle it is possible to weld the relay contacts shut. If this happens the relay will not shut off the load because the contacts are welded shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebster Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Try replacing the switch with an everyday garden variety switch. If the problem goes away you know it's the C4 switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Try replacing the switch with an everyday garden variety switch. If the problem goes away you know it's the C4 switch.It is obvious that it is the C4 switch....I had a problem where one day my garage lights wouldn't turn off. This is a switch as well, and asked just like what mercedes is describing. The LED's indicated the light was toggling, Composer would show the light was toggling, the multi-taps and press & holds worked, but the light was stuck on. About 18 hours later (when I was getting ready to install a new switch) it mysteriously started working again and has worked great ever since.Hopefully yours either starts working, or you can get it RMA'd. It sounds like it wouldn't be a bad idea to split the load up between two switches if possible.EDIT: I referenced pharmdsmith as the OP when it was actually Mercedes...it's too early to be posting =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharmdsmith Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Actually my switches work perfect. Mercedes is the one with a hiccup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebster Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I had a situation with 8 strings of lights where the load was about 1500 watts total (if all were on). I wired 2 strings each to a C4 dimmer, for a total of 4 dimmers. Dimmers were in the basement out of the way. Then put a single 2 button keypad in a convenient location, and use it to control the 4 dimmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercedes Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 I have split the load up between all of my switches in a more "balanced" environment. All of my switches worked last night except for one. I turned the power to the Christmas sub panel off and this morning the switch worked as expected. There is no way the load on this switch is close to 1000 watts now but it was very close to that at first. I will see how this works tonight. I might just replace that switch with a spare to see if that makes any difference. My 12 switches are in 3 4 gang boxes. They do get warm. I might try taking the face plates off tonight to improve ventilation as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercedes Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 The replaced switch worked great. The old switch worked for most of the night but after about 6 hours of constant on, it would not shut off. I am going to try the switch in a more "normal" location to see if it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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