HDMI audio to analog matrix

[LilHessy]

What is the recommended way to get HDMI audio into an analog only matrix?

Currently the equipment is all in the same room so I am thinking that I will run HDMI into the TV, digital out to a cheap DAC and into the matrix.

Later in the year we will be remodeling and all the equipment will be moved to a rack in another part of the house. Cable runs will likely be around 50 feet. I am trying to avoid running several high quality (future proof) HDMIs to the TV and audio back to the rack. I have no need for surround at this location. The Marantz  NR1200 is interesting, 2 channel receiver with HDMI in. Zone 2 out to audio matrix if I want the same audio in other rooms. Option 2 HDMI switch that has audio extractor and/or DAC to analog matrix and a single HDMI to tv. 

https://www.marantz.com/en-us/product/av-receivers/nr1200

https://www.hdtvsupply.com/amp/8k60-4k120-4x2-hdmi-matrix-switch.html

Is there another option that I am overlooking?

What is your recommendation?

Thanks

[msgreenf]

https://www.blackwiredesigns.com/store/digital-analog-audio-extender-over-cat/

 

Use these all the time and they work great. Happy to provide a quote

[LilHessy]

Thanks for the response, my explanation may not have been clear. All of my sources will be in the rack which will not be near the TV. I am looking for a way to run a single HDMI from the rack to the TV. I would like to remove the audio in the rack to send it to the matrix. I suppose this could be an option if I ran HDMI from all the sources to the TV then I would run the audio back using this? Unless I don't understand how it would be used I don't think it is the solution that I am looking for.

[Cyknight]

The other option is to use something like he mentioned, and run the audio back that way - so HDMI to TV, then audio back from TV to matrix. Note that that setup would NOT facilitate listening to the same source in other audio rooms (very well) though.

I wouldn't suggest using a receiver with a zone2 out to feed other zones via a matrix - you're better off just getting standard hmdi audio extractors on the sources (that need them) and feeding them into the matrix.

[msgreenf]

44 minutes ago, LilHessy said:

Thanks for the response, my explanation may not have been clear. All of my sources will be in the rack which will not be near the TV. I am looking for a way to run a single HDMI from the rack to the TV. I would like to remove the audio in the rack to send it to the matrix. I suppose this could be an option if I ran HDMI from all the sources to the TV then I would run the audio back using this? Unless I don't understand how it would be used I don't think it is the solution that I am looking for.

Do you have cat6? Just use a balan. 

[TFlury]

15 hours ago, Cyknight said:

The other option is to use something like he mentioned, and run the audio back that way - so HDMI to TV, then audio back from TV to matrix. Note that that setup would NOT facilitate listening to the same source in other audio rooms (very well) though.

I wouldn't suggest using a receiver with a zone2 out to feed other zones via a matrix - you're better off just getting standard hmdi audio extractors on the sources (that need them) and feeding them into the matrix.

Use HDMI audio extractors for sources with no analog output as CYknight said. Depending on the setup you may need to double check if they can downmix dolby digital to 2ch pcm. Also verify the HDMI bandwidth of the extractor.

Cheap option

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08R6HCGVV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

If you don't mind spending $500-$1000+ AVPro has some very nice audio extractors. Personally I love their hardware and always use it when I can.

 

[IBZICON]

On 3/21/2022 at 10:06 AM, TFlury said:

Use HDMI audio extractors for sources with no analog output as CYknight said. Depending on the setup you may need to double check if they can downmix dolby digital to 2ch pcm. Also verify the HDMI bandwidth of the extractor.

Cheap option

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08R6HCGVV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

If you don't mind spending $500-$1000+ AVPro has some very nice audio extractors. Personally I love their hardware and always use it when I can.

 

Thank you regarding your recommendation of the J-Tech Digital HDMI 2.0 Audio Extractor Converter with Downmix Compatible with Dolby Digital Decoding.  I’m in the process of adding  three (3) Binary B-260-ARC - Binary Audio Return Extender for HDMI ARC and S/PDIF to my C4 system for the eARC audio output from 1 LG OLED, 1 LG miniLED  and 1 samsung LCD for sound returned back to the respective room in ceiling speakers.  The speakers are controlled via a C4 8x8 Audio matrix then a C4 amp 8 zone  (models are from 2013).  

I’m assume that I would need three (3) J-Tech products from above to be connected via HDMI cable from the Binary-B receiver HDMI ARC out ? Using RCA cables to connect the J-Tech output to the C4 audio matrix input (I have enough free zones on the C4 audio matrix to add 3 more, as I had dedicated Cat5 pulls from all of the TV locations when the house was build 11 years ago back to my C4 rack, as the original  plan was distributed video, but I dropped DirectTV when Sunday NFL Ticket moved to YouTube TV and I have installed Roku sticks on all of my TV’s — more background of my system for the pros reading this)

What are the installers view of using a HDMI to RCA cable instead of the J-Tech Digital extractor for the sound output to the C4 audio matrix?

Can the Binary B-260-ARC be powered by a Micro-USB to USB wall outlet?  I have older 2 port USB with 2 electrical outlets through out my house that I can switch out with the USB C combo outlets?

Thank you for your input/advise.

[Cyknight]

WHY would you use an ARC return in that situation, when you can simply use a sstandard audio balun for either stereo or SPDIF? Depending on age of C4 8x8 matrix, it should have coax SPDIF inputs, but you're just using a much more expensive options, potetnially with more add ons, to do something that can be done much simpler and cost efficient.

 

[IBZICON]

12 hours ago, Cyknight said:

WHY would you use an ARC return in that situation, when you can simply use a sstandard audio balun for either stereo or SPDIF? Depending on age of C4 8x8 matrix, it should have coax SPDIF inputs, but you're just using a much more expensive options, potetnially with more add ons, to do something that can be done much simpler and cost efficient.

 

That’s what my soon to be ex C4 dealer/installer advised/quoted me and why I’m here.  
 

Edit: this is the matrix switch I currently have, as I was planning on upgrading to the current Triad matrix/amps this fall, but appears that I should do this sooner rather than later.  
 

Second Edit: Could I use this (JTECH-AET-AS) with the a TS-AMS8-V2?

[Cyknight]

21 hours ago, IBZICON said:

Second Edit: Could I use this (JTECH-AET-AS) with the a TS-AMS8-V2?

Yes, but again, why would you. Using ARC if optical is simply available makes way more sense.

There's also audio baluns that take optical and output stereo analogue out there as well that would work with your current audio matrix without any 'trickery' - I really just see ZERO reason to enter ARC into the mix as a somewhat unstable and difficult to work with way of getting audio to your speakers....

[IBZICON]

23 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Yes, but again, why would you. Using ARC if optical is simply available makes way more sense.

There's also audio baluns that take optical and output stereo analogue out there as well that would work with your current audio matrix without any 'trickery' - I really just see ZERO reason to enter ARC into the mix as a somewhat unstable and difficult to work with way of getting audio to your speakers....

Interesting that Cat 5e to PCA audio baluns are $10 Amazon, whereas a local C4 dealer told me today that he uses AV Pro Edge extenders for $500 a pair (can be found online for $300).  

[Cyknight]

Well your $10 are worthless from a dealer perspective. They may even work fine (though I doubt they work well) - if doing those you may as well just twist rca cables to cat5 leads directly, save yourself an RJ45 end too.

$500 is a lot, but I don't use those, cant comment too much. Those do do SPDIF as well though, including passing through surround AND convert so not really a comparison to the $10 one you're linking. We use a different pro-only channel brand (GreenAudio) which off the top of my head price is something nearer to 250 US. Those can take either stereo, optical OR coax SPDIF and it'll output all three on the other end (if feeding stereo PCM, if surround analogue is disabled) similar to the one you linked from AV Pro. They're super universal so our install guys just carry them in stock in the vans - it's just not worth it from our perspective to carry several different options.

If you're more DIY in your install deal with your dealer, it's your time to go through 10 sets of baluns from amazon (and thus your time to consider vs finding a cheap option). That's not a negative - just pointing out that there's a reason you can do things like this cheaper if you're willing to use your own time.

Any way that is all  going too far into the realm of discussing why installers of ANY kind don't carry 5 options for every possible scenario and thus why you may be able to find a cheap one-off option and make it work.

[IBZICON]

@Cyknight it was posted further up thread that @msgreenfmentioned he uses the AV Edge Pro product, but I only need 2 channel return sound for the 2.0 inch ceiling speakers located in the keeping room off of the kitchen, rear porch and master bedroom (my two 7.1 and one 7.1.2 zones are powered by AV receivers).    I’m not considering the $10 Amazon option, as the Cat5e cable was roughed in during construction 10 years ago by my former C4 dealer from the TV locations back to the C4 rack (original thought was distributed video, but this was prior to steaming).   It appears that the J Tech product is a newer to market that is powered by USB C rather than DC/5 V, as I have a support ticket into J Tech if a AC outlet with 2 USB C ports is adequate to power the J Tech audio extender.  Yes, it’s pseudo DIY as I’ve chosen to go the remote C4 dealer/programer route for the TV sound, but the speakers are programmed already into my C4 system for streamer music services out. 

[msgreenf]

Pretty sure I never quoted you a price on anything...

[IBZICON]

22 hours ago, msgreenf said:

Pretty sure I never quoted you a price on anything...

That is correct that you never provided me a quote, as my intention was just to mention you used AV Edge Pro over two years ago, March 2022.  Are you still using that product?

[IBZICON]

On 4/22/2024 at 11:18 PM, Cyknight said:

Well your $10 are worthless from a dealer perspective. They may even work fine (though I doubt they work well) - if doing those you may as well just twist rca cables to cat5 leads directly, save yourself an RJ45 end too.

$500 is a lot, but I don't use those, cant comment too much. Those do do SPDIF as well though, including passing through surround AND convert so not really a comparison to the $10 one you're linking. We use a different pro-only channel brand (GreenAudio) which off the top of my head price is something nearer to 250 US. Those can take either stereo, optical OR coax SPDIF and it'll output all three on the other end (if feeding stereo PCM, if surround analogue is disabled) similar to the one you linked from AV Pro. They're super universal so our install guys just carry them in stock in the vans - it's just not worth it from our perspective to carry several different options.

If you're more DIY in your install deal with your dealer, it's your time to go through 10 sets of baluns from amazon (and thus your time to consider vs finding a cheap option). That's not a negative - just pointing out that there's a reason you can do things like this cheaper if you're willing to use your own time.

Any way that is all  going too far into the realm of discussing why installers of ANY kind don't carry 5 options for every possible scenario and thus why you may be able to find a cheap one-off option and make it work.

I have been going the DIY route since my original install back in 2014/2015 which was new construction.  Have been replacing products when they are outdated and adding Apple HomeKit products as my former C4 dealer was very slow to respond (took weeks to respond to a e-mail after multiple reminders),  as in my market the dealers are chasing the new construction and over hundred thousand custom home movie theaters on Kiawah Island and Seabook Island, and very tough to schedule for equipment change out for an existing system.  Mater of fact, I'm still on OS 2.  Don't mind researching a product to make sure it is the correct match for my project, as when a piece of equipment fails the homeowner should have a basic under standing of how it works after a power cycle fails to fix.  I'll pay a premium for a product that works, but as technology advances pricing should drop (except during the pandemic days).  For example, a manufacturer that has been able to hold on prices while advancing technology is Apple.  We're getting M silicon chips that cost less than the  equivalent Intel chips, and a big productivity boost. 

Circling back that I contacted  J Tech regarding the JTD-3081 as an audio extender and their support representative recommend SPDIF as I'm only extending sound to a 2.0 in ceiling speaker set up.   

[msgreenf]

2 hours ago, IBZICON said:

That is correct that you never provided me a quote, as my intention was just to mention you used AV Edge Pro over two years ago, March 2022.  Are you still using that product?

I still use their products, yes, no recently but they make great products