womble123 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Hey all, Im moving house and simply fancy a change from Control4. Not that I dont like Control4, it's just I like to change things now and again. Im a dealer for Elan so that would be the cheapest but I dont know how god they are at the moment compared to Control4, Loxone, Elan, RTi, Home Assistant, Apple Home? Im quite out the loop as have been in hospital multiple times this year and before was very busy so not really looked up to see if there is anything game changing out there at the moment? I haven't even really looked what's new/coming up with Control4 either. Cheers, Jamie P.S. If I decided to change I have quite a lot of equipment I will be pulling out my home by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) 49 minutes ago, womble123 said: Hey all, Im moving house and simply fancy a change from Control4. Not that I dont like Control4, it's just I like to change things now and again. Im a dealer for Elan so that would be the cheapest but I dont know how god they are at the moment compared to Control4, Loxone, Elan, RTi, Home Assistant, Apple Home? Im quite out the loop as have been in hospital multiple times this year and before was very busy so not really looked up to see if there is anything game changing out there at the moment? I haven't even really looked what's new/coming up with Control4 either. Cheers, Jamie P.S. If I decided to change I have quite a lot of equipment I will be pulling out my home by the way. You sell Elan but don’t know how it compares to other systems in the market? home assistant and apple home arent even a comparison to c4 and others do you need just lights and locks? Do you need 14 TVs and 20 zones of audio? Edited July 31, 2022 by eggzlot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopedogg88 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 They all suck compared to Control4 in my opinion Either go completely DIY with Sonos, Smart Apps on TV, Ring/Nest, Lutron, Alexa, etc...or if you want a professional automation system, use Control4. RyanE, womble123, therockhr and 2 others 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanITman Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 46 minutes ago, eggzlot said: You sell Elan but don’t know how it compares to other systems in the market? home assistant and apple home arent even a comparison to c4 and others do you need just lights and locks? Do you need 14 TVs and 20 zones of audio? I think Apple Homekit is gaining some serious legs. They share a similar proxy device concept to C4 and make it very easy to us. Now with camera and AV integration its knocking on C4 door. I have homebridge and C4 combined and I'm digging the easy of use with ios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopedogg88 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Will that work well with my Samsung phone, Roku, Kaleidescape, and video over IP system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 As others have mentioned, if you want full residential automation (lights, locks, sensors, security integration, HVAC, plus A/V), you won't do much better than Control4. If you don't care about A/V control, the open source Home Assistant is decent for sensor / HVAC integration, but it doesn't do any kind of AV path integration, and has no UI or concept of A/V zones, and little to no TV / Audio Service / etc. integration. It does require you do a *LOT* of reading / investigating / setting up to get it working, even compared to Control4. If you like writing YAML / Python files, it's your thing... Of course, I'm more than a little biased. RyanE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Oh, and there's no iOS / Android dedicated app, and no remote access that you don't setup completely by yourself. The 'iOS / Android App' is just your local home's Home Assistant generated website, so it looks like something from the early 2000's, but with better graphing... RyanE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 12 hours ago, eggzlot said: You sell Elan but don’t know how it compares to other systems in the market? home assistant and apple home are t even a comparison to c4 and others do you need just lights and locks? Do you need 14 TVs and 20 zones of audio? Kind of a mix between programming and capabilities.. Firstly, forget homekit. So, Control4 is the easiest to program probably, and C4 automates a lot of things. RTI is a lot more customisable, and you mostly define what you want to do, and the sequence. Because of that, you can do your own features fairly easily Elan in my opinion is a mix between the two, and has stuff like NVR capabilities built in which isn't available in C4 (although, you can view cameras). Luxone apparently isn't a good option for AV.. Also, one of their sales reps (at least, their linkedIn suggests they are) have been making obnoxious comments/posts in some of the competing Home automation groups lately too (one of which the rep suggested de-integrating the lighting from C4 so you can use theirs too, which is a truly weird suggestion for someone selling to "integrators"). Really depends on what you're after.. All are good options, and especially with the new mobile webview capabilities, and the recent colorwheel in Control4, we're still only starting to tap into some of the features (so, its actually a lot more powerful than I think many people realise) But, overall just avoid HomeKit and Google Assistant, they aren't really practical (I mostly regret the 2 google Nest Hub's I bought honestly. Will probably replace with 2x T4's.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amr Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Or pay $$$ for a Savant or Crestron! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble123 Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 12 hours ago, eggzlot said: You sell Elan but don’t know how it compares to other systems in the market? home assistant and apple home arent even a comparison to c4 and others do you need just lights and locks? Do you need 14 TVs and 20 zones of audio? Yes, I haven't sold/used Elan in over 3/4 year so I dont know how to compares now... I Need 5 TV Zones and 8 (Pref 9) Zones of Audio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble123 Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 55 minutes ago, Amr said: Or pay $$$ for a Savant or Crestron! Well I never paid for Control4 dealer. Is Savant or Crestron not DIY friendly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble123 Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 I do like Control4l, I just fancy a change to be honest and really like the idea of floorpans. Anyone have any input on Loxone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 13 minutes ago, womble123 said: I do like Control4l, I just face a change to be honest. Anyone have any input on Loxone? According to a video one of the Luxone reps reposted themselves, not a good choice for AV. womble123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble123 Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 10 minutes ago, Andrew luecke said: According to a video one of the Luxone reps reposted themselves, not a good choice for AV. Cheers Andrew, was that aimed at video or Music or both? Im not massively fussed about video now really as most of my TV's have Plex on them and I have a HDHomerun for streaming multiple TV via network from its little box (it has 4 TV runners that record to aa centralised NAS). Do you have a link to the video please? Also, If I went down the line of something truly open source or nearly (like Control4 as you can do everything without a dealer anyway) could I reuse any of the Music elements of Control4 with something like Home Assistant etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 3 hours ago, womble123 said: Also, If I went down the line of something truly open source or nearly (like Control4 as you can do everything without a dealer anyway) could I reuse any of the Music elements of Control4 with something like Home Assistant etc? Home Assistant has no concept of music distribution, and Control4 doesn't publish audio or control protocols for any of the music elements, so I'm guessing no. RyanE Andrew luecke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXTR Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 If you’re an active Elan dealer I find these questions a bit trollish In 2020 you asked about how C4 compares to RTI Whats the real deal here msgreenf, OceanDad, RyanE and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 6 hours ago, womble123 said: Yes, I haven't sold/used Elan in over 3/4 year so I dont know how to compares now... I Need 5 TV Zones and 8 (Pref 9) Zones of Audio I'd think a Toyota dealers knows what Honda and Nissan are up to and will tell you why the comparable Toyota is better than the Honda or a Nissan. They may not know about Lamborghini, but they know the other cars in their direct competitive market. OceanDad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanITman Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 18 hours ago, chopedogg88 said: Will that work well with my Samsung phone, Roku, Kaleidescape, and video over IP system? Correct that its iOS only. However, many households are iOS only. If you are a dealer, it could be a lost customer. Homekit/Hombridge offer integrations with anything that you want to write a driver for. There is some limits on the proxy devices but it continues to grow. Roku integration is easier. Centralized Video and Kaleidescape are likely edge cases for even a Control4 customer. Centralized Video had to take a hit when Smart TVs came out. Kaleidescape is for the select few. HomeKit/HomBridge is going after the a customer that likely would have been a Control4 customer in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 2 hours ago, DanITman said: Centralized Video had to take a hit when Smart TVs came out No. It took a (logical) hit when decent, cheap(ish) media streaming devices came out. 'Better' smart TVs do a decent job now but all of them were utter garbage until fairly recently. I'd rather use an AppleTV than smart TV apps myself ... and I really would not use an AppleTV at all. videostorm and BXTR 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 3 hours ago, DanITman said: Centralized Video and Kaleidescape are likely edge cases for even a Control4 customer. Centralized Video had to take a hit when Smart TVs came out. Kaleidescape is for the select few. My wife sometimes rolls her eyes at what I've done with the house and even more so when I tell her what I plan to upgrade, remove, etc. 1-2x I got to a point where I thought about ditching the centralized video distribution. When I told my wife about it she asked "does this mean no more PiP when someone rings the door" or "now when we have our big superbowl party the TVs won't be sync like at my mom's house" I got the hint to keep in the system and expand on it. There are some good use cases for video distribution, even today with all the streaming boxes and smart tvs out there. Is it required, no. Is it a very useful feature once you have it, yes. It is an expensive luxury, but then again so is most of Control4. videostorm, c44me, Neo1738 and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanITman Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 2 hours ago, eggzlot said: My wife sometimes rolls her eyes at what I've done with the house and even more so when I tell her what I plan to upgrade, remove, etc. 1-2x I got to a point where I thought about ditching the centralized video distribution. When I told my wife about it she asked "does this mean no more PiP when someone rings the door" or "now when we have our big superbowl party the TVs won't be sync like at my mom's house" I got the hint to keep in the system and expand on it. There are some good use cases for video distribution, even today with all the streaming boxes and smart tvs out there. Is it required, no. Is it a very useful feature once you have it, yes. It is an expensive luxury, but then again so is most of Control4. I don't think you will find many people on this forum that disagree with you . My point is that most don't have it and most Control4 customer likely don't have it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanITman Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 3 hours ago, Cyknight said: No. It took a (logical) hit when decent, cheap(ish) media streaming devices came out. 'Better' smart TVs do a decent job now but all of them were utter garbage until fairly recently. I'd rather use an AppleTV than smart TV apps myself ... and I really would not use an AppleTV at all. Sorry, small typo that made a huge difference. I meant to say that centralized video took a hit from Smart TVs. Also, the fact that cable boxes and satellite boxes are really dying off and everything has gone streaming. I use Roku TVs (high end tcl) and have been super happy with them. The wife can still pick up a Roku remote if she doesn't want to interact with Control4 and have the same experience. The IP control hasn't ever broke unlike some other major brands. chopedogg88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanITman Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 2 hours ago, eggzlot said: My wife sometimes rolls her eyes at what I've done with the house and even more so when I tell her what I plan to upgrade, remove, etc. 1-2x I got to a point where I thought about ditching the centralized video distribution. When I told my wife about it she asked "does this mean no more PiP when someone rings the door" or "now when we have our big superbowl party the TVs won't be sync like at my mom's house" I got the hint to keep in the system and expand on it. There are some good use cases for video distribution, even today with all the streaming boxes and smart tvs out there. Is it required, no. Is it a very useful feature once you have it, yes. It is an expensive luxury, but then again so is most of Control4. Curious what video matrix you use to PIP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 1 hour ago, DanITman said: Curious what video matrix you use to PIP? Netplay by video storm has PiP with IP cameras. Door rings and I get a PiP box for 10 seconds with a live feed on the tv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 14 hours ago, DanITman said: (high end tcl) Huh? I don't follow. chopedogg88, msgreenf and SpencerT 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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