Why Control 4?

[Nwills]

Just curious why Control 4? In this day and age where there are so many open systems at a fraction of the cost that can be user administered. I've been with Control 4 for nearly 15 years in 2 different homes and just recently decided to completely move away from it and so far I can't say I miss it at all. But that's just my opinion.

[eggzlot]

It’s already that time of the month?

 

[Nwills]

I didn't mean to sound like I'm trash talking the C4 community or the C4 products. Just curious how this stuff still has relevance in the market? I'm sure it does and realize the quality and benefits but just thought that it may be slightly less desirable considering the number of options out there nowadays. Apologies if I came across the wrong way.

[C4 User]

@Nwills just curious what type of system you had in your two houses? Lighting? Audio? TV’s?, security? Camera’s?. Stand alone all this can be done with a variety of open systems. Integrated into one platform, not so much.

[Andrew luecke]

There is lots of competition. However, there's a lot of good reasons including:

1. MDU / Multi-apartment installations don't get handled well by many free solutions at all.

2. Many free solutions do a terrible job for large installs (some premium homes have 12-20 TV's, and 20+ zones of music). In a large premium residential property or more complex solutions, you also can't afford to be jerking around with potentially unofficial/unsupported drivers.

3. It's targeted at people who want the system to be managed for them and to be fully supported. For installers, its very quick to deploy, configure and maintain with a good interface. A huge amount of work happens in the background (we're at the point we're fixing most problems before they're reported). 

4.  In fact, the Control4 of today, is nothing like the C4 of even 2 years ago. At the moment, C4 is rolling out features so fast, developers are struggling to keep up (we have a huge backlog of things we WANT to do with the new features, but don't have the time to do them). OS3.3 is capable of so much more than we're currently doing

5. Native touchscreen + remote control hardware

6. A lot of work goes into collaborating with 3rd party hardware development (so there is a lot of hardware that comes first to C4). 

7. Awesome interoperability

8. No jerking around maintaining a computer to run it.. Self-contained hardware

 

It isn't for everyone (no system is), but its a very good choice for people who do want a managed system or/and have a larger property

[Amr]

8 hours ago, Nwills said:

Just curious why Control 4? In this day and age where there are so many open systems at a fraction of the cost that can be user administered. I've been with Control 4 for nearly 15 years in 2 different homes and just recently decided to completely move away from it and so far I can't say I miss it at all. But that's just my opinion.

Am happy for you

[eggzlot]

8 hours ago, Nwills said:

I didn't mean to sound like I'm trash talking the C4 community or the C4 products. Just curious how this stuff still has relevance in the market? I'm sure it does and realize the quality and benefits but just thought that it may be slightly less desirable considering the number of options out there nowadays. Apologies if I came across the wrong way.

This same topic pops up every 3-5 weeks.  Of course you can ask but hence my sarcastic response 

if you search you will find many threads on this topic 

[ILoveC4]

I’ve tried but haven’t found anything that is as connected and seamless as Control4. What we use the most is remotes and touch panels to control audio and video (22 zones or audio and 6 zones of video), lighting via scenes and voice control (this is easy to replicate with other systems), intercom (aspects of this are easy to replicate but not with the buttons on the intercom that are amazing) and general automations. It is integrated in to nearly every aspect of my home. 
 

The a/v and physical interface is the hardest thing to replace. 

[RAV]

Why is Apple such a huge portion of the phone market, when Android is cheaper and potentially does more?

People don't want to fuss, they want somebody else to do it for them.
They want less interaction with setup and maintenance.
They want the benefits without the work.

And dealers want to make a profit. I know dirty word. But we do this for a living. There's no end of the year profit in the DIY platforms.
Sure, you can say charge for your time, but nobody wants to pay for multiple house calls for this one updated, and that one didn't and this setting got changed, and the pc died, or the network, or the ....
You saved up front, and paid out through the years.
I'm sure many who have gone theroute would be astonished if they punched a clock to track the hours they spent in reality.

And yes, there's some of that within Control4, but if you design it well, choose any third party devices carefully and keep native as much as possible, then it's very manageable.

[BXTR]

Based on the fact that you posted items for sale (that were very outdated) back in 2019 and the same stuff again a day ago & saying that "there's no market for this stuff" , I can only say that you are not completely in the know as to who the target market is and you might be a bit salty.

I wouldn't blame you for being annoyed either, C4 15 years ago was on a different planet compared to today

I have had a few clients try doing exactly what you did and they all came full circle again, however in fairness they had little spare time, little understanding of technology but had a lot of money so they wanted a good experience with a managed system again

Its sort of like traveling across America in a bus or on a plane in business class, both will get you to where you want to go but the experience will be vastly different, cost being no object i don't know a single person who would take the bus

[RyanE]

No DIY solution today provides the breadth of automation that Control4 does.

A lot of them do *control* fairly well, but don't do any AV integration, and have no consistent UI (you usually have to design your own UI).

Control4 was designed to be 'Everyday Easy' for both installers and homeowners.

DIY solutions are not typically easy for either.

They've gotten better, but they're usually a configuration nightmare, a maintenance nightmare, or both... 

RyanE

 

[Control4Savant]

14 hours ago, Nwills said:

I didn't mean to sound like I'm trash talking the C4 community or the C4 products. Just curious how this stuff still has relevance in the market? I'm sure it does and realize the quality and benefits but just thought that it may be slightly less desirable considering the number of options out there nowadays. Apologies if I came across the wrong way.

You can’t speak poorly of C4 here or else people get upset. 

[chopedogg88]

15 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

You can’t speak poorly of C4 here or else people get upset. 

He's not talking poorly of C4.  He's asking about Control4 or any other non-DIY system for that matter (Savant, Crestron, Lutron Homeworks, Elan, etc, etc).

Its a valid question, and he's received lots of valid answers...nobody seems to be upset, except for the Savant Fanboy.

Edited September 2, 2022 by chopedogg88

[Chico]

OP, the fact that it seems like you can’t answer your own question…

[Cyknight]

Why Sony TVs when there's TCL

Why Mercedes when there's Kia

Why buy a brand name computer when there's cheap 'non brands' on amazon

Why a surround system when you can get an atmos soundbar....

 

 

[BY96]

As someone who loves DIY and previously used Wink for a number of years, I would never give up Control4 at this point. As stated above, the ability to automate is endless. I don't think there are really any user-friendly DIY systems that integrate lighting and shades with audio/video, at least not to the degree of C4. I know of some DIY systems that do have a lot of ability, but those require extensive programming and seem to be meant for people very comfortable with PC programming. I used one for a bit, The Home Remote, but got frustrated, as the designer of the system does not seem able to communicate instructions for non-PC programmers like me. 

When I first got C4, I was a little frustrated with the limitations of satisfying my DIY urges. My original installer, even though he knew I like to tinker, never introduced me to Composer HE (but then also was annoyed anytime I asked for changes). Once I came to this forum, and learned about Composer HE, and also find a new (and much better) dealer/programmer, my urges could be satisfied. 

However, and this is the huge advantage of C4 (or similar systems), if I can't figure something out or something isn't working right, I have someone to go to. The true DIY systems usually leave you with forums at best to get help. 

On AVSForums, there is a system pushed frequently by the company owner that does seem to offer a balance. You can hire someone from the company to program for you or do it entirely yourself. I do see an advantage to that, but given the abundance of integrations with C4 (e.g., I just added a Lumagen Radiance Pro, for example, and prior to that, a heated floor controller), and my DIY itch satisfied with Composer HE, I am completely happy with C4. 

[BY96]

1 hour ago, RyanE said:

No DIY solution today provides the breadth of automation that Control4 does.

A lot of them do *control* fairly well, but don't do any AV integration, and have no consistent UI (you usually have to design your own UI).

Control4 was designed to be 'Everyday Easy' for both installers and homeowners.

DIY solutions are not typically easy for either.

They've gotten better, but they're usually a configuration nightmare, a maintenance nightmare, or both... 

RyanE

 

Yes! The designing of the UI was the part of The Home Remote I hated the most. No templates that I could just use and tweak. 

[therockhr]

16 hours ago, Nwills said:

Just curious why Control 4? In this day and age where there are so many open systems at a fraction of the cost that can be user administered. I've been with Control 4 for nearly 15 years in 2 different homes and just recently decided to completely move away from it and so far I can't say I miss it at all. But that's just my opinion.

the usual suspects are going to come in here and do the usual comparisons about cars or luxury items instead of actually giving you the reasons.

To make things simple there are really 2 user groups for control4:

1 - the people with more money than time: they hired an integrator because they wanted to have some cool technology in their home and be able to control it all from 1 place. if control4 is being used in their home it probably wasnt their choice, it was the integrators. the technology in the background is irrelevant. its the integrator that matters. if the integrator thinks there is another product than could do what they want better or easier then they would have it. the customer doesnt care if the solution is open or closed (C4). they just want it to work.

2 - people with some money and some time -  this is the group who if there was a DIY (open) solution that out there that could do all they want they would probably use it instead of C4. The fact is though if you want to have a hard button remote that can control all of your audio and video together easily there is just not anything on the DIY side that comes close (and on the custom side there isnt anything with the user base and price point of C4). And even if there was a product, the price of an EA-1 and SR-260 is not that much different than what logitech's last solution was going for. Yes there is the cost of an integrator but there are varying levels of what involvement you need from them if you have the time and knowledge. C4 has a great product at a great price for these types of users.

[Control4Savant]

1 hour ago, chopedogg88 said:

He's not talking poorly of C4.  He's asking about Control4 or any other non-DIY system for that matter (Savant, Crestron, Lutron Homeworks, Elan, etc, etc).

Its a valid question, and he's received lots of valid answers...nobody seems to be upset, except for the Savant Fanboy.

You really have difficulty with comprehension… or reading. I also didnt mention Savant, but I understand your upset. 

 

[chopedogg88]

Congratulations that's may be the first post where you haven't.  My comprehension level is pretty solid I think...if you want I'll PM you my SAT scores and degree?  Cause I'm very upset here

[wnpublic]

3 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Why Sony TVs when there's TCL

Why Mercedes when there's Kia

Why buy a brand name computer when there's cheap 'non brands' on amazon

Why a surround system when you can get an atmos soundbar....

These analogies are only on point if the Sony and Mercedes are locked at 55 MPH, have manual roll-down windows, and otherwise lack features that the "lesser" brands offer standard.  The other explanations on this thread, regarding customers who just want their core functions to work, want a support person to manage it, and don't care if it's the most feature-rich, or are very focused on AV distribution, are a lot more persuasive.

[msgreenf]

Let's not start another name calling in this thread. Disagree politely or I will have to lock the thread again 

[Amr]

The troll goes on, but really it’s the case with every single forum I’ve been in the last 20 yrs not only c4forums!

We never came across some one really gave any meaningful info or shed a light on the break through he/she made walking away from c4 into the unknown world of DIY!

Well, I was there, I had the time, passion, knowledge and money to experience this but I was bored to death! My eyes get tired of going through tons of configuration files, trails, workarounds, constant upgrades just to keep the light on.

Nothing is abstract. No single experience like the other but at the end I don’t get those people who come along into a gathering of same mutual interests and start bombing around and making a mess

[Sherwin Lee]

One of my main views on C4 vs DIY is the stability of the solution and definitely its coding power. I have been assisting in installing the new Legrand range and something as simple as a arrive or leave button has to be a dedicated button that you stick on the wall. So by the time you have lights, blinds, function keys etc there is no longer an option for minimalist looks. A solution thsts rock solid and easily transferred between dealers also is a big high point. How do you sell a fully automated home thats on DIY? I highly doubt they would want to buy in to a one of. I sold a house fully C4 and the new owner was not tech savvy at all. Took 2 weeks and they couldnt live without it. With C4 your home will live with you. Make tasks simple. Anything you do must be to improve ones lifestyle not add difficulties. My wife questioned why i wanted automated curtain tracks. After a month she couldn't live without it and now its a simple double click of a light switch to open/close, turn on a bathroom extractor. The list goes on and on. And I know in 10 years C4 will still support their systems. DIY solutions come and go but my home will do 100 years or more.

[ChzBurger]

I have a foot in both Control4 and DIY worlds. As stated above, Control4 really is one of the best products available for AV control. There's nothing in the DIY world that comes close to a SR260. On the non-AV side some of the DIY products are just as capable than Control4. All these products (C4 & DIY) have issues with how to abstract devices, drivers, integrations, applications. Most of those issues go away with experience. My primary and favorite DIY controller is Hubitat.  My lighting is RadioRA 2 and I have the lights linked to both C4 and Hubitat. I choose to do all the lighting automation in Hubitat as there are built in applications that make the process easier than a C4 system without a paid driver. It's great that C4 has a developer network that sells their drivers and apps, but it would be nice if C4 Sherlocked some of the features/functionality that have become fairly standard over time. Hubitat has a free form rule engine similar to the C4 Programming tab, with similar clickety interface. One thing Hubitat has over C4 is the configuration/programming is all done over a web interface. If a $100 device can be programmed via a web interface one would think C4 could do it too, maybe sometime in the future. (Lutron has the same issue with RadioRA 3.) Another one of Control4's obvious strengths is the corporate and dealer support network. I'm pretty sure the introduction of Thread and Matter are going to lead to a fair amount of change in the industry. Progress and competition is good for all end users.