OS3.3.1

[therockhr]

47 minutes ago, Baubas Cat said:

If upgrading from an HC-800, is it worth getting the newer CORE or is the EA just as good?

 

Unless you just find a steal somewhere on an EA controller get the latest CORE.

[Baubas Cat]

Where's the best place to buy a CORE controller? From a local dealer or a dealer from here/online? Is one able to offer a better price or are the prices set. Also, if I change my controller, will all my driver with  licenses transfer to the new controller or will they have to be reinstalled? I thought they are tied to the controller?

[cvj]

If you use the dealer you purchased the licenses through, they can transfer them to the new controller.  If you use another dealer, as long as they have a Driver Central account, they can get you transferred to their account, and then transfer the license to your new controller 

[Andrew luecke]

3 hours ago, drmark12pa said:

So I will have to my HC800 removed completely or unable to update my system?  Wow... that is pretty lame on part of C4.  I use my HC800 in rack specifically for streaming music to my C4 amps only and nothing else.  This means I have to get rid of a controller I purchased new and buy a new controller that will essentially do nothing different?

 

It's not that simple.. There are likely major backend changes too which might not be easy (like Kernel or otherwise). Also you don't need to upgrade (C4 aren't forcing the upgrade, you simply are stuck on that firmware). Finally, every installer was actually surprised when they announced OS 3.3 would support HC800 I think honestly.

 

Given the new Halo remote too which uses Siri, presumably, Apple probably also likely imposed requirements like AES extensions on the CPU to support it to ensure their own security.

Furthermore, maybe they have plans to  do stuff like announce support for Apple Music or Airplay 2.. Which again, would likely require AES extensions, or other security extensions (the CPU's used on the HC800's are likely not secure in any manner) 

Would it change anything if they announced it would be depreciated 6 months ago? Unless you bought one on ebay recently, nope. It's 10 years old, and to be honest, every installer I spoke to was REALLY surprised OS3.3 supported it. If you were buying one on eBay now, you'd half expect it to be EOL soon anyway. 

 

Don't forget, SnapAV Engineering are working on a heap of stuff in the background (even the OS3.3 lighting was in development for at least 6 months before final release). It's actually a good thing they're now dropping HC800, as it suggests they have some major plans coming up. 

[Andrew luecke]

Also, don't forget, in 2012, the Intel Core 2xxx/3000 processors were launched, which you'd be hard pressed finding on any persons computer these days. In fact, windows needs 8000 series to run, and even datacentres no longer use CPU's older than 7000/8000 series last I checked.

Intel probably wouldn't have even bothered to introduce the security Microcode patches for the Sandy/Ivy Bridge CPU's 

[chopedogg88]

6 hours ago, C4 User said:

I waited almost a year for T4’s to replace my T3’s and the same for new locks. If a device is nearing hardware EOL I would like sufficient notice so that I do not have to wait a year to take advantage of new features.

during a once in a lifetime global pandemic, where there were major supply chain problems across all industries...

[drmark12pa]

Maybe instead of focusing on dropping a controller they could have alphabetized the Macros

[drmark12pa]

17 hours ago, msgreenf said:

Except it doesn’t.  They have NEVER done that before and made lights not upgradable.  You are using emotion not fact in that argument.  They HAVE and will continue to EOL controllers.  Controllers vs switches/dimmers are very different.

Emotion yes... I'm mad I have to ditch a perfectly working controller that does nothing more than send audio to an amplifier if I ever want to upgrade every other C4 piece of equipment I have.  There is a difference between not functional and obsolete.  I could still listen to audio using a Windows 95 computer if I wanted to but won't be able to listen to audio with HC800 any longer?  It's RCA left and right out... If C4 is so advanced in their development it would seem easy to discontinue certain functionality  as they already did previously with the HC800 on screen display.  

Logic no, with all of the upgrades, why isn't there some focus on some basic functions such as simply alphabetizing the macros, scheduler events, and Voice Scenes??  

[msgreenf]

9 minutes ago, drmark12pa said:

Emotion yes... I'm mad I have to ditch a perfectly working controller that does nothing more than send audio to an amplifier if I ever want to upgrade every other C4 piece of equipment I have.  There is a difference between not functional and obsolete.  I could still listen to audio using a Windows 95 computer if I wanted to but won't be able to listen to audio with HC800 any longer?  It's RCA left and right out... If C4 is so advanced in their development it would seem easy to discontinue certain functionality  as they already did previously with the HC800 on screen display.  

Logic no, with all of the upgrades, why isn't there some focus on some basic functions such as simply alphabetizing the macros, scheduler events, and Voice Scenes??  

but can you upgrade that windows 95 computer to windows 11?

This is no different, you can conitnue to listen to music with that controller but can't ugpade it.

[Gene]

EOL for controllers is a non issue especially when they are 10 years old.  I would assume it would be at 4 or 5 years.  In a specific (niche) market and in technology this is even more the case. No one makes you upgrade.  Windows 95 was replaced 3 years later with Windows 98 and all support dropped in 2001 (6 years later for Win95).  Stinks yes, no updates, but you can still use it....just not any new games, etc... just like using the hc800 and staying on a previous OS; if you want more flexibility, utilize more components (audio matrix, video matrix, i/o extender, controller) but in the end you'll need to upgrade to extend the functionality esp as new products are developed that integrate. This debate pops up every now and then, but really is no debate at all.  Moore's law is alive and well and I can't wait to see what else is coming...I'm glad they are writing new code and being innovative (and should change more often but thats just me).

Love the new remotes!  Can't wait to get them.

[chesterwilson]

Interesting strategy, EOL a major controller when you're trying to sell new hardware....  

[RAV]

34 minutes ago, drmark12pa said:

I'm mad I have to ditch a perfectly working controller that does nothing more than send audio to an amplifier if I ever want to upgrade every other C4 piece of equipment I have. 
There is a difference between not functional and obsolete.

But it is obsolete.
The hardware is not capable of the current networking security protocols requirements.

So why now you may ask? We'll probably find out at 3.4, but likely something soon would not be able with the HC800 still in the system, even in a limited handicapped form.
This is our road map guys, we have to let it go, when do we do that? Well it's not compatible with project J, so before then.

Why does it have to be a conspiracy? Sales tactic? Force Upgrade?
It can't do this thing we need it to do for the next added feature set, so we have to stop bringing it forward.
That's it.

[Topspin14m]

I think we all have to admit that home automation companies utilizing a group of components designed to work together have to sunset technology at some point. It’s happened with Sonos, Bose, Apple and others. It’s just a fact you have to live with when you buy into these environments. If you want your system to always have the latest and greatest features, you have to keep replacing and buying new components.

It stinks when it happens to you - I spent so much money replacing Connect Amps with Amps. But it’s the nature of the beast. I could have stayed on S1.

Control4 just can’t be expected to code around aging controllers forever. We’ll always be able to say ‘why can’t they just release a version of OS X.X without that one feature so it can keep running on HC800s,’ but at some point the software gets so cumbersome it’s just not feasible/too expensive for C4 to support it all.

[wnpublic]

3 hours ago, msgreenf said:

but can you upgrade that windows 95 computer to windows 11?

This is no different, you can conitnue to listen to music with that controller but can't ugpade it.

I think the poster's point is that the entire system can't be upgraded, even though the HC800 is just performing an ancillary function.  Like you can't upgrade the top of rack switch because one of the servers in the rack is EOL. 

I don't see any problem with sunsetting 10 year old stuff, but I can understand finding annoyance with this result.

[msgreenf]

3 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

I think the poster's point is that the entire system can't be upgraded, even though the HC800 is just performing an ancillary function.  Like you can't upgrade the top of rack switch because one of the servers in the rack is EOL. 

I don't see any problem with sunsetting 10 year old stuff, but I can understand finding annoyance with this result.

I agree - but I also don't think you can look at it as components. It's an ecosystem and everything has to be able to play well together.

[chopedogg88]

1 hour ago, wnpublic said:

I think the poster's point is that the entire system can't be upgraded, even though the HC800 is just performing an ancillary function.  Like you can't upgrade the top of rack switch because one of the servers in the rack is EOL. 

I don't see any problem with sunsetting 10 year old stuff, but I can understand finding annoyance with this result.

Where I question what Dr Mark is saying - that audio streaming is an "ancillary function".  There is a lot of software behind the function of streaming the music from all these various music services, I don't think you can simply treat the hc800 as a dumb RCA port that is passing that through....but I could be wrong...wouldn't be the first time or the last!

[therockhr]

29 minutes ago, chopedogg88 said:

Where I question what Dr Mark is saying - that audio streaming is an "ancillary function".  There is a lot of software behind the function of streaming the music from all these various music services, I don't think you can simply treat the hc800 as a dumb RCA port that is passing that through....but I could be wrong...wouldn't be the first time or the last!

Yeah i am guessing the audio piece would take quiet a bit of effort to keep supporting. Lots of different things there with streaming audio and other services that would need to be supported.

The IO is a different story. The HC800 and HC250 probably could have been converted to glorified IO extenders with not much work. Give them the same firmware as on the IO extender. I would be interested to know what processor the IO extender is running on.

[drmark12pa]

I don't mind losing functionality with OS updates was just hoping to use the basic functions of RCA outs even if everything else on the HC800 was bricked.... almost like a passthrough more or less.

One question I did have is with the addition of Zwave drivers.  Does this allow for the use of Zwave devices such as Monoprice Z-Wave Plus Series 700 Door/Window Sensor - Monoprice.com (as an example) for cheaper sensors for simple functions?  I don't have any Zwave devices and haven't used anything with this technology yet.  Just wondering if some low priced sensors could be added to the system easily.

[wnpublic]

1 minute ago, drmark12pa said:

One question I did have is with the addition of Zwave drivers.  Does this allow for the use of Zwave devices such as Monoprice Z-Wave Plus Series 700 Door/Window Sensor - Monoprice.com (as an example) for cheaper sensors for simple functions?  I don't have any Zwave devices and haven't used anything with this technology yet.  Just wondering if some low priced sensors could be added to the system easily.

I had wondered the same thing. 

 

My guess.....Nooooooo

[drmark12pa]

Also, has there been a release date set for the CORE controllers and pricing?  I was going to get another controller for my new theater area but now go with a CORE controller and shift my EA5 to theater.

[msgreenf]

Just now, wnpublic said:

I had wondered the same thing. 

 

My guess.....Nooooooo

Yes. W a core controller

[msgreenf]

Just now, drmark12pa said:

Also, has there been a release date set for the CORE controllers and pricing?  I was going to get another controller for my new theater area but now go with a CORE controller and shift my EA5 to theater.

They have been out since spring 

[drmark12pa]

2 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

They have been out since spring 

Am I missing them on the website?

Controllers (control4.com)

[wnpublic]

1 minute ago, msgreenf said:

Yes. W a core controller

IMO, That would be huge.  If there were some z wave drivers for common devices - switches, covers, etc., and end user could do the discovery and config, that would scratch a lot of itches for more "control."

[msgreenf]

29 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

IMO, That would be huge.  If there were some z wave drivers for common devices - switches, covers, etc., and end user could do the discovery and config, that would scratch a lot of itches for more "control."

I'm not sure that's actually how it will work. Because you'll still need the dealer to add the instances of the drivers, but what it allows for is not a unique driver for every model device