Water Sensor - 2022/2023

[eggzlot]

So I did a similar post 1-2 years ago but my plumber is coming over within the next few weeks for a few odds and ends, and Black Friday/Cyber Monday is around the corner so it got me thinking again....

Current Set Up: Hardwired DSC Alarm with wired water sensors in most prone areas (sump pump, hot water heater, etc).  Tuya water sensors under sinks (cloud based).  All talk to C4 and I have a hardwired WaterCop to turn the water off if water is detected.  I also have a StreamLabs (cloud based) sensor to detect leaks (slow leaks, etc) but the issue is no C4 integration.  It works with Alexa and Google home, but if a leak is detected, I still manually need to execute the Water Cop to turn off water.  Also since the StreamLabs sits on the pipe versus being cut it, it is not as sensitive as other models that require a plumber to install.

What I am thinking: Replace the StreamLabs with something that can be cut in so it reads at a much more sensitive level for leaks.  I want to keep my WaterCop as the auto off because it is local/hardwired and not reliant on the cloud this way at a minimum, any water sensed by my DSC alarm will 100% turn off the water.  I am ok with a slow leak sensor thing being cloud based, but would prefer something cut into the pipe and something without a reoccurring subscription fee and of course some C4 integration for notices, to trigger the WaterCop, etc.

Thoughts?  Am I wasting my money and just steam with StreamLabs?  The less sensitive + lack of integration has me looking for another alternative.

[wnpublic]

This is the one that seems most promising to me w/r/t in the pipes.  Integration would have to be through IFTTT.

https://www.phyn.com/plus-smart-water-assistant/

[South Africa C4 user]

You are probably wasting money changing… but it is always cool to get everything integrated with Control4.

I’d recommend Flo by Moen (driver by CinDev) and if you want to graph water usage also, it links nicely with the Janus Technology BMS driver.

[South Africa C4 user]

By the way, while Flo by Moen is cloud based, the auto shutoff still works if the internet is down… you just don’t get notified until the internet is back…

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, South Africa C4 user said:

You are probably wasting money changing… but it is always cool to get everything integrated with Control4.

I’d recommend Flo by Moen (driver by CinDev) and if you want to graph water usage also, it links nicely with the Janus Technology BMS driver.

maybe it is a waste but the idea is, if a pipe bursts but not near one of my sensors, what good is it if I am notified but I am not available to check the message and turn off the water.  its a 1 in a million scenario, but that is the reason to have one of these devices, to protect from that 1 in a million scenario?

1 hour ago, wnpublic said:

This is the one that seems most promising to me w/r/t in the pipes.  Integration would have to be through IFTTT.

https://www.phyn.com/plus-smart-water-assistant/

IFTTT integration isnt awful, already have the driver and the pro subscription so it could be easy

Does seem like these are auto shut off + monitor units.  I guess I could have two auto off units on the line, I would just hate losing my hard wired/non cloud connected auto water off from my local sensors (DSC Alarm).  seems odd to go to the cloud when I already have a local solution covering a majority of the scenarios (so maybe I am wasting money).

I was hoping I could do something with an incoming push message (From StreamLabs) that would trigger something in IFTTT but no real luck doing that.

[Cyknight]

I'd suggest the Moen piece as well - hard to get your hands on though.

And I would say you HOPE it's a waste of money - much like you hope having insurance is a waste of money...

[wnpublic]

1 hour ago, eggzlot said:

Does seem like these are auto shut off + monitor units.  I guess I could have two auto off units on the line, I would just hate losing my hard wired/non cloud connected auto water off from my local sensors (DSC Alarm).  seems odd to go to the cloud when I already have a local solution covering a majority of the scenarios (so maybe I am wasting money).

This guy looks like monitor only.  https://www.phyn.com/smart-water-assistant/

This thread has convinced me i need something like this, or the Moen.

[eggzlot]

2 hours ago, wnpublic said:

This guy looks like monitor only.  https://www.phyn.com/smart-water-assistant/

This thread has convinced me i need something like this, or the Moen.

Saw that too but that is local at each location.  Cool idea, but that can get very expensive fast.  I am looking for something to monitor the whole house for small leaks in a pipe, or a pipe burst.  With that smart water assistant by phyn i believe it just monitors that specific feed so if you set it up on a sink it monitors that sink but not the rest of the house

My StreamLabs will monitor the entire house, as will Moen or the more expensive Phyn device.

[msgreenf]

Moen flo is great and honestly the c4 integration is really good but hardly needed. 

[South Africa C4 user]

7 hours ago, msgreenf said:

Moen flo is great and honestly the c4 integration is really good but hardly needed. 

I agree with this.  The only reason that I (really) like the integration is that I graph all of my water usage and show this along with lots of other graphs inside Control4 using the Janus BMS monitor.

The other use that I have for it is turning of my main water supply (which activates my well) whenever I am irrigating.

[C4 User]

9 hours ago, msgreenf said:

Moen flo is great and honestly the c4 integration is really good but hardly needed. 

I have both, hardwired sensors thru my security panel and Moen Flo. The benefit of integrating both into C4 is you can shut down the water if a leak is detected by one of the hardwired sensors ahead of the Moen Flo.

[wnpublic]

On 11/23/2022 at 5:46 PM, eggzlot said:

Saw that too but that is local at each location.  Cool idea, but that can get very expensive fast.  I am looking for something to monitor the whole house for small leaks in a pipe, or a pipe burst.  With that smart water assistant by phyn i believe it just monitors that specific feed so if you set it up on a sink it monitors that sink but not the rest of the house

My StreamLabs will monitor the entire house, as will Moen or the more expensive Phyn device.

You inspired me, i bought the Phyn+shutoff so will post my reactions when installed.

[eggzlot]

57 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

You inspired me, i bought the Phyn+shutoff so will post my reactions when installed.

Glad I could be an enabler!

[eggzlot]

On 11/25/2022 at 1:50 PM, wnpublic said:

You inspired me, i bought the Phyn+shutoff so will post my reactions when installed.

Hey there - bumping an old thread. How’s the Phyn?

I noticed the device without shutoff feature will still monitor an entire house so it has me reconsidering giving it a try

[wnpublic]

21 hours ago, eggzlot said:

Hey there - bumping an old thread. How’s the Phyn?

I noticed the device without shutoff feature will still monitor an entire house so it has me reconsidering giving it a try

Hey - well it's been an adventure.  The Phyn has some pretty non-standard connectors to tie into the water line, which required the plumber to try and obtain them from their supplier.  Phyn does a pretty poor job of explaining what's needed, so it went back and forth for a couple weeks, with calls and emails in to Phyn. Finally, the plumber said, let's just do the Moen Flo, we install all them all the time, and we have the parts.  So I did that and the Flo has been "fine" apart from the power supply just dying for no good reason.  app is fine, integration with my home automation is fine.  It has twice now decided my daughter's bath was a catastrophic leak and shut off the water :).

The Phyn - I finally did get it installed in our airbnb about a month ago, and guess what? It found a slow leak in a toilet.  Got that fixed.  I don't know one way or the other whether Moen would've found it too, but happy that the Phyn did.

 

[eggzlot]

20 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

Hey - well it's been an adventure.  The Phyn has some pretty non-standard connectors to tie into the water line, which required the plumber to try and obtain them from their supplier.  Phyn does a pretty poor job of explaining what's needed, so it went back and forth for a couple weeks, with calls and emails in to Phyn. Finally, the plumber said, let's just do the Moen Flo, we install all them all the time, and we have the parts.  So I did that and the Flo has been "fine" apart from the power supply just dying for no good reason.  app is fine, integration with my home automation is fine.  It has twice now decided my daughter's bath was a catastrophic leak and shut off the water :).

The Phyn - I finally did get it installed in our airbnb about a month ago, and guess what? It found a slow leak in a toilet.  Got that fixed.  I don't know one way or the other whether Moen would've found it too, but happy that the Phyn did.

 

Interesting.  And funny you mention the bath. I have a StreamLabs that doesn’t integrate but maybe 1x a week if someone takes a slightly extended shower it thinks there is a leak.  Since it lacks integration I just ignore the note if someone is showering.  I wondered how Moen and others handle those situations - would be awful to have shampoo in the hair and the water turns off on you!

For Phyn did you get the assistant and shutoff unit or just the assistant?

[wnpublic]

14 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

Interesting.  And funny you mention the bath. I have a StreamLabs that doesn’t integrate but maybe 1x a week if someone takes a slightly extended shower it thinks there is a leak.  Since it lacks integration I just ignore the note if someone is showering.  I wondered how Moen and others handle those situations - would be awful to have shampoo in the hair and the water turns off on you!

For Phyn did you get the assistant and shutoff unit or just the assistant?

The Phyn is the assistant+shutoff unit.  seemed desirable for a house that i'm not in/is left unattended for extended periods. 

On the moen, both shutoffs happened while i was out of town, so i learned about it from the app+irate phone calls from my wife, which was a definite home automation fail

[GregCAMS]

by chance does anyone know if there is a way to bypass water shutoff functions or thresholds on the Moen unit?  We just installed an ice maker and by design runs most of the day and night as part of its fill and dump process.  Right now the unit shuts off the water after a few hours thinking there is a leak when actually its just the ice maker operating as designed.  Same goes for when we have larger use of washing machines when family is in town and do laundry all day before packing to leave.  

 

 

[South Africa C4 user]

1 hour ago, gregheard said:

by chance does anyone know if there is a way to bypass water shutoff functions or thresholds on the Moen unit?  We just installed an ice maker and by design runs most of the day and night as part of its fill and dump process.  Right now the unit shuts off the water after a few hours thinking there is a leak when actually its just the ice maker operating as designed.  Same goes for when we have larger use of washing machines when family is in town and do laundry all day before packing to leave.  

 

 

A number of options:

1. Put it permanently in sleep mode.  Only way I know to do this is via the C4 driver and updating the state every (say) 48 hours.

2. Add a manual override under FloSense (which you can find under device settings).  For instance, on one of my Flo’s I have the override in play from 10am to 3pm because my pool autofiller is (can be) active between 10.30 and 2.

3. Change the sensitivity of Flo Sense and it should learn that this behaviour is Ok after a week or 2. 

While my suggestion would be option 2, the purists would say that you should use option 3 and put Flo to sleep for the day of large washing (from time to time).

[GregCAMS]

thanks for that guidance.  For #2 & I am not seeing those setting options in my iOS app Flo by Moen app.  Please advise or screen shot would be great.

For #3 not seeing that either in the Flo by Moen app.  

[msgreenf]

It needs to go thru the setup process again and it specifically asks if you have an ice machine 

[South Africa C4 user]

4 hours ago, gregheard said:

thanks for that guidance.  For #2 & I am not seeing those setting options in my iOS app Flo by Moen app.  Please advise or screen shot would be great.

For #3 not seeing that either in the Flo by Moen app.  

Mitch’s solution may well be better!

Here are the screenshots anyway:

 

[GregCAMS]

thank you so much!