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Network Connectivity Issues with NEEO Remtoe


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13 minutes ago, SpencerT said:

I'm on the TI chipset neeo (2c:ab) running 4 Unifi AP's with zero issues.

Someone in this thread has a TI chipset neeo running Unifi and has issues with the neeo. 

@SpencerT: did you mean to reference "TI chipset" on both lines above?

The MAC of my NEEO starts with 4C:24... which series of chipset is that?

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I did. You were asking if anyone had issues with neeo on unifi. Someone with a similar setup and MAC has issues while I do not. 

I believe these may actually all be TI chipsets, just different runs of the chips (not entirely positive). 

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3 hours ago, msgreenf said:

Post some screenshots of your band configuration and band steering. How do you have the 2.4 setup? 

It's funny that Snap One charges what, $500 for the Neeo? A very premium price for a remote.  And then unlike every other wifi device, it needs special settings and its own SSID or else it disconnects all the time (and even with the special settings, people report issues).  Given all these problems, they really should offer some kind of upgrade program for Neeo users to the Halo.  

2 hours ago, PumpUpVolume said:

Ruckus is a pretty obscure brand in Canada. I'm not going to switch to a brand that has no formal presence in my country.

The problem with Ruckus is it isn't worth the price anymore.  Ubiquiti gives you almost as much configurability, is highly stable, and is at a price point that is a fraction of what Ruckus charges.  Plus you have a lot of options for APs--way more than what Ruckus has.  I'd concede that Ruckus is better in some ways (or is supposed to be) but to achieve that 1-5% better performance, you are paying like $5K more.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Topspin14m said:

It's funny that Snap One charges what, $500 for the Neeo? A very premium price for a remote.  And then unlike every other wifi device, it needs special settings and its own SSID or else it disconnects all the time (and even with the special settings, people report issues).  Given all these problems, they really should offer some kind of upgrade program for Neeo users to the Halo.  

The problem with Ruckus is it isn't worth the price anymore.  Ubiquiti gives you almost as much configurability, is highly stable, and is at a price point that is a fraction of what Ruckus charges.  Plus you have a lot of options for APs--way more than what Ruckus has.  I'd concede that Ruckus is better in some ways (or is supposed to be) but to achieve that 1-5% better performance, you are paying like $5K more.

 

 

There are some well made points here and I'll add that the new Halo Touch has a MSRP Of almost double that of the NEEO.

Today's reality is that home WiFi needs to be a commodity product/service that is inexpensive and not complex. It is now the backbone of everything the plugs into a wall or has batteries. Companies that focus on ultra high, uber expensive products are going to be playing in a thin niche market. WiFi is not a novelty, not fun, and should work without a fuss and not require a second mortgage. I have a number of cheap devices that never lose connection to my network. The NEEO sells for something like $800 in Canada. At that price it should have bullet proof networking capabilities. It shouldn't require packet analysis with WireShark with fingers and toes crossed to get to communicate with a quality WAP.

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19 minutes ago, Topspin14m said:

It's funny that Snap One charges what, $500 for the Neeo? A very premium price for a remote.  And then unlike every other wifi device, it needs special settings and its own SSID or else it disconnects all the time (and even with the special settings, people report issues).  Given all these problems, they really should offer some kind of upgrade program for Neeo users to the Halo.  

The problem with Ruckus is it isn't worth the price anymore.  Ubiquiti gives you almost as much configurability, is highly stable, and is at a price point that is a fraction of what Ruckus charges.  Plus you have a lot of options for APs--way more than what Ruckus has.  I'd concede that Ruckus is better in some ways (or is supposed to be) but to achieve that 1-5% better performance, you are paying like $5K more.

 

 

Both Ruckus and Ubiquiti has their own advantages..

  • Theoretically, Ruckus performs better in High density environments and has faster AP's these days. Not sure how well that translates to most residential though
  • Ubiquiti is substantially cheaper.
  • Ruckus has proper support though, whereas, Ubiquiti Elite is now gone entirely. Support is via the community, and I likely still have posts from years ago Ubiquiti have conveniently ignored, but have replied to other posts at the same time..
  • Ruckus also seems to properly validate their firmware, whereas Ubiquiti relies more on community testing.
  • In the past, Ubiquiti accidentally released a firmware which destroyed the 5ghz radio's a few years ago. Also, Ubiquiti accidentally sent $40mil to a scammer once, which is something which shouldn't happen to a network security company.. They've gotten better with firmware though.
  • WIPS on ruckus is I suspect is also likely a bit better.
  • Ruckus is enterprise grade (both high end and low end). Ubiquiti doesn't offer direct support from the manufacturer, so enterprise can't really support them (and neither can SnapAV probably). Because if there is an issue, there is nowhere to go to.
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4 minutes ago, PumpUpVolume said:

Companies that focus on ultra high, uber expensive products are going to be playing in a thin niche market.

I think Cisco would venture to disagree with you. They sell thousands of APs per customer in enterprise deployments... 

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15 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

I think Cisco would venture to disagree with you. They sell thousands of APs per customer in enterprise deployments... 

Clarification - I was speaking strictly about residential applications. Large Enterprise is entirely different kettle of fish. Residential and enterprise are different markets. I agree that there is a market for expensive, robust product for enterprise, especially large enterprise applications. I work in an industry with very serious cyber security threats... I get this. Residential is a different market. Not many homes are outfitted with Cisco; I fully expect Cisco has less than 1% of the residential market (and I think they are OK with that).

When I bought my Netgear system a decade ago, there wasn't much available in the way of mid-tier systems... and, I'd argue that - at that time - Netgear had the best small business offering, which I used for my house. Arguably Ubiquiti is filling that void, but it isn't the same. The Netgear product came with true lifetime warranty and ProSupport, which gets you in contact with a network engineer in short order. Netgear ProSupport is totally in a different league from Ubiquiti support.

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Personally in my house I've replaced my Wi-Fi network three times in the last 12 years as technology has improved. Having a wireless access point for 10 years is just not realistic. If you want the best performance and highest compatibility and something that is still supported by a vendor today

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In my current rev I went with ruckus. It's awesome. It's the only Wi-Fi network I've ever had in my house for. My wife has never said anything about performance. Literally never. I have 500 meg internet and I got 500 mag on Wi-Fi everywhere. Did I spend a lot? Yes do I expect a lot? Yes

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16 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

In my current rev I went with ruckus. It's awesome. It's the only Wi-Fi network I've ever had in my house for. My wife has never said anything about performance. Literally never. I have 500 meg internet and I got 500 mag on Wi-Fi everywhere. Did I spend a lot? Yes do I expect a lot? Yes

For context to any other system/solution recommendations: I have 22 ethernet drops in the house and we use desktop PCs and have devices such as ATVs connected by Gig ethernet; I've recently added a few Cat 6a 10 Gig lines to locations where I might need that in the future. What I need from WiFi for the present is robust service. I'm not running around the house testing the speed with 3 antenna MIMO gaming laptops - we don't own one of those and it's just not my use case. The current system is fast enough; I normally see 300+ MBPS on 5 GHz in all living areas of the house - way more than adequate to stream high resolution video - and all devices work fine except for the NEEO. No one in the house has ever complained about the WiFi; the only complaint is that the NEEO remote isn't working. My short term objective is to solve the NEEO issue; a longer term project is WiFi 6 whole home coverage.

 

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Both Ruckus and Ubiquiti has their own advantages..
  • Theoretically, Ruckus performs better in High density environments and has faster AP's these days. Not sure how well that translates to most residential though
  • Ubiquiti is substantially cheaper.
  • Ruckus has proper support though, whereas, Ubiquiti Elite is now gone entirely. Support is via the community, and I likely still have posts from years ago Ubiquiti have conveniently ignored, but have replied to other posts at the same time..
  • Ruckus also seems to properly validate their firmware, whereas Ubiquiti relies more on community testing.
  • In the past, Ubiquiti accidentally released a firmware which destroyed the 5ghz radio's a few years ago. Also, Ubiquiti accidentally sent $40mil to a scammer once, which is something which shouldn't happen to a network security company.. They've gotten better with firmware though.
  • WIPS on ruckus is I suspect is also likely a bit better.
  • Ruckus is enterprise grade (both high end and low end). Ubiquiti doesn't offer direct support from the manufacturer, so enterprise can't really support them (and neither can SnapAV probably). Because if there is an issue, there is nowhere to go to.

0fd698491d678ad03c7f55cf2b0c43c8.jpg

I hear you, but I can get 900+ mb/sec down and 800+ mb/sec up on my Wi-Fi 6e system from UniFi (I just pulled the attached Speedtest on my iPad Pro). For 5ghz, I consistently get 600-700+. For the $5-6K difference, I can buy a lot of replacement $299 UniFi access points, if UniFi somehow bricks them in a horrible accident. These speeds, by the way, are in a dense urban environment where I can see many SSIDs at any given time. The mass produced prosumer Wi-Fi tech has just caught up. On the one hand, if I were a dealer, I’d definitely push the most rock solid option from a support standpoint. On the other hand, it’s just hard to justify access points that cost as much as Ruckus- and it must be a really tough convo when one breaks.

But back to the Neeos- I just think they should work on my system without all these drops. I haven’t tried a separate SSID and I will, but it just seems like a lot of babying for something that should work like any other Wi-Fi device - especially something that is supposed to be competing for best in class at a top price point. I’m a big C4 fan and definitely looking forward to trying the Halo.


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10 minutes ago, Topspin14m said:


0fd698491d678ad03c7f55cf2b0c43c8.jpg

I hear you, but I get 900+ mb/sec down and 800+ mb/sec up on my Wi-Fi 6e system from UniFi (I just pulled the attached Speedtest on my iPad Pro). For 5ghz, I consistently get 600-700+. For the $5-6K difference, I can buy a lot of replacement $299 UniFi access points, if UniFi somehow bricks them in a horrible accident. These speeds, by the way, are in a dense urban environment where I can see many SSIDs at any given time. The mass produced prosumer Wi-Fi tech has just caught up.


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Not to mention that you only need about 10 MBPS to stream 4K (I'm being very approximate here, I realize there are all sorts of caveats). I'm not suggesting that most people would be happy with 10 MBPS top out on their WAP, but if you are getting 300, even a reliable 160 MBPS improvements wouldn't be noticeable for most applications. If video streams flawlessly on 30 MBPS (it does on my 2.4 GHz network), it doesn't look any better if you give it 10x the pipe.

All my high speed throughput applications are on Ethernet through a Gig switch, so all those devices (including everything in my AV rack) takes advantage of all the speed my ISP dishes out. The WiFi is reserved for those things that get carried around the house or are attached to a wall where there is no ethernet wire.

My *old* Netgear equipment is providing 300+ MBPS, but I don't think there would be any real noticeable difference in user experience in our house by upgrading that.

What would be an improvement is a NEEO that showed something other than spinning wheel or "Unable to connect".

Nonetheless, I appreciate the low down on the Ubiquiti performance. Do you have more than one WAP and if so are you using a hardware controller?

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Not to mention that you only need about 10 MBPS to stream 4K (I'm being very approximate here, I realize there are all sorts of caveats). I'm not suggesting that most people would be happy with 10 MBPS top out on their WAP, but if you are getting 300, even a reliable 160 MBPS improvements wouldn't be noticeable for most applications. If video streams flawlessly on 30 MBPS (it does on my 2.4 GHz network), it doesn't look any better if you give it 10x the pipe.
All my high speed throughput applications are on Ethernet through a Gig switch, so all those devices (including everything in my AV rack) takes advantage of all the speed my ISP dishes out. The WiFi is reserved for those things that get carried around the house or are attached to a wall where there is no ethernet wire.
My *old* Netgear equipment is providing 300+ MBPS, but I don't think there would be any real noticeable difference in user experience in our house by upgrading that.
What would be an improvement is a NEEO that showed something other than spinning wheel or "Unable to connect".
Nonetheless, I appreciate the low down on the Ubiquiti performance. Do you have more than one WAP and if so are you using a hardware controller?

I used to have Netgear equipment and agree with your assessment entirely. No one “needs” these download speeds to do anything typical. It’s just kind of nice because everything feels a little tick speedier. But it’s like all tech- you start spending tons of money to get that last 5-10% of performance. The sweet spot per $ is way lower.

I have 1 AP per floor of my home though my house is taller but narrower than a typical suburban house would be (I have 5 APs-though one is outdoor). I could definitely get away with fewer APs (3 would cover me fine), but for 6ghz, I think you want more APs with the power on each dialed down. I use a cloud key to control it all, so that’s $179. I don’t have a Unifi router-I actually still have an OvrC router and switches. So I lose a lot of the data feed I’d get if I had all Unifi stuff, but I’m just waiting on changing those out because my OvrC stuff is relatively new.


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1 minute ago, Topspin14m said:


I used to have Netgear equipment and agree with your assessment entirely. No one “needs” these download speeds to do anything typical. It’s just kind of nice because everything feels a little tick speedier. But it’s like all tech- you start spending tons of money to get that last 5-10% of performance. No one really needs that and usually the sweet spot per $ is way lower.

I have 1 AP per floor of my home though my house is taller but narrower than a typical suburban house would be. I use a cloud key to control it, so that’s $179. I don’t have a Unifi router-I actually still have an OvrC router and switches. So I lose a lot of the data feed I’d get it I had all Unifi stuff, but I’m just waiting on changing those out because my OvrC stuff is relatively new.


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FWIW, I changed the channel width on my 5 GHz network from 80 to 40,which cuts speeds from 300 to 150 and no one noticed. For that matter, no one other than me notices whether they connect to the 2.4 GHz or the 5.0 GHz. The 2.4 GHz is currently set with a 20 MHz channel width so it is peaking out at ~46 MBPS... and notices which band they are on (other than me).

You said it... that last 5-10% and the bragging rights that go with it are awfully expensive. There is also something to be said for mature firmware and problems/solutions that others have already documented. Being a bit behind the curve is not all bad.

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FWIW, I changed the channel width on my 5 GHz network from 80 to 40,which cuts speeds from 300 to 150 and no one noticed. For that matter, no one other than me notices whether they connect to the 2.4 GHz or the 5.0 GHz. The 2.4 GHz is currently set with a 20 MHz channel width so it is peaking out at ~46 MBPS... and notices which band they are on (other than me).
You said it... that last 5-10% and the bragging rights that go with it are awfully expensive. There is also something to be said for mature firmware and problems/solutions that others have already documented. Being a bit behind the curve is not all bad.

I haven’t had any firmware issues (though my system is a second half 2022 install), but the thing with Unifi is they let you very easily take beta firmware and will sell “early access” hardware. A lot of techies love that but of course you will run into more issues if you take that path. I only use the final release firmware and the fully available hardware.


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19 hours ago, Amr said:

I would say Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-6, also set it and forget it, just don’t waste hours tweaking it and screwing everything in the process, leave it vanilla and u will get incredible throughput, performance and compatibility …

I have Ubiquiti Unifi with 2 APs, also set up a 2.4 Wi-Fi only for the Neeo, and still have troubles with it constantly losing the signal.  I also have zero problems with everything else on the network.  I have had so many problems with the Neeo if have completely pulled it off the system.  Not worth the headache, and not heavy enough to even be used as an expensive boat anchor.  

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Ruckus has been super solid for both me personally and for my clients. Never a single hiccup, fantastic coverage and bullet-proof operation.

In our home, I have a single Ruckus AP in the middle of our 3000 sq ft house, and that's all we need. Love Ruckus.

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1 hour ago, DawnGordon said:

Ruckus has been super solid for both me personally and for my clients. Never a single hiccup, fantastic coverage and bullet-proof operation.

In our home, I have a single Ruckus AP in the middle of our 3000 sq ft house, and that's all we need. Love Ruckus.

Understand that I said all the same things about my Netgear AP setup (with one centrally located AP giving full coverage to 3,750 sq ft) for ten years with a wide range of devices until we introduced one NEEO. It would be interesting to see what would result if I could put my NEEO in your home. My point being, this may be a problem with specific NEEO units. It somehow has become a WAP centric discussion.

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18 hours ago, PumpUpVolume said:

the only complaint is that the NEEO remote isn't working. My short term objective is to solve the NEEO issue; a longer term project is WiFi 6 whole home coverage.

I'm the same way:  Neeo is *only* device that does not reliably work.  I have >100 WiFi and >100 Ethernet clients active and everything works great--- except Neeo.    I'm using all Ubiquiti gear, BTW.  

 

Screenshot 2023-01-30 at 10.02.42 AM.png

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3 minutes ago, cnicholson said:

I'm the same way:  Neeo is *only* device that does not reliably work.  I have >100 WiFi and >100 Ethernet clients active and everything works great--- except Neeo.    I'm using all Ubiquiti gear, BTW.  

 

Screenshot 2023-01-30 at 10.02.42 AM.png

Thank you for sharing this. I think you've convinced me to shelve my efforts to *solve* the NEEO issue. I'll upgrade to the Halo Touch when it becomes available and will suspend my troubleshooting and problem solving in the interim. If I still have a problem with the Halo Touch then I'll need a new gameplan, but given what you and others have shared I'm going to cross fingers that the issues with my WAP magically goes away once the NEEO gets swapped out with a Halo Touch; i.e. this furthers my belief that the root cause of the issue rests with the NEEO, not the WAP.

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I’d like to add my experience as well, just know these facts of my setup, I have zero issues with my network, let me repeat again 0 issues with 3 AP’s at $300 cost!

- My home is 2 stories built entirely with Concrete and Bricks, no wood

- The entire house is covered by 2 x LR AP’s in addition to 1 x Outdoor, these feeding most devices on 2.4 and 5 GHz spectrum and I have like 150 WiFi devices

- My network is stable, I have zero issues including the shitty Neeo’s!

- I have offloaded the overall WiFi with 2 things, 3 x Apple Express covers blind and weak spots in all my Kids rooms also Commercial ZB3 had taken a lot of WiFi Loads and this introduced a huge difference as network becomes more responsive and relatively flat 86-90% all of the time

40927544-42C3-4491-BB86-AA569B57C094.png

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25 minutes ago, Amr said:

- My network is stable, I have zero issues including the shitty Neeo’s!

I think it must be a combo of some parts used in *some* Neeos being bad and/or assembled defectively and/or buggy firmware and/or don't play nice with *some* WAPs.   So, while I place blame on my particular Neeo, I don't think all Neeos are inherently shitty....

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38 minutes ago, cnicholson said:

I think it must be a combo of some parts used in *some* Neeos being bad and/or assembled defectively and/or buggy firmware and/or don't play nice with *some* WAPs.   So, while I place blame on my particular Neeo, I don't think all Neeos are inherently shitty....

Yes, something like that... and one of my theories is imperfect implementation of the security protocols (e.g. WPA2). I've run into a security protocol implementation issue once before where I had a particular device (Carrier Infinity Control) that wouldn't stay connected to a particular model of WAP (WAC540). In that case, although the root cause of the issue was likely in the client device (thermostat), an upgrade to a newer WAP with more modern security protocol implementation (different chipset) resolved the issue. The security protocols are a combination of hardware and firmware and prone to this kind of issue. If the NEEO used an older WiFi chip, this could very well be the issue; it may have an imperfect implementation of WPA2. If true, this might explain why it has been helpful in some cases to give the NEEO it's own SSID. This theory is academically interesting but practically useless in that hardware and firmware are not in the end users control. So, if this is root cause of the issue one or both devices need to be changed. I'm inclined to suspect security profiles versus co-channel or cross-channel interference, guard interval issues, etc. - partly because some of us have demonstrated that we change these parameters and the behaviour remains the same. Security protocol issues could also be linked to the never sleep WiFi theory as well. It's just a theory, but it is based on some real world experience and it seems to suit the collective observations. 

Edited by PumpUpVolume
correction and addition
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